Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

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Ogion
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#21 Post by Ogion » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:43 pm

Yeah. Shipping refugees back to war zones to be murdered is such a great support for human rights. Actually, Democrats are pro-immigrant because they support diversity and support treating people with dignity, both of which are anathema to Republicans.

leon1122
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#22 Post by leon1122 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:54 pm

Most DACA recipients are from Mexico. Last time I checked, Mexico isn’t a war zone. Being pro-diversity does not benefit the lives of illegal immigrants in any way, and letting people work for next to nothing in horrid, dangerous conditions does not respect human dignity.

TrPrado
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#23 Post by TrPrado » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:42 pm

While I agree with a few key points in that statement, I’d also point out that all the DACA recipients I know and have heard about are students with a career plan or are pursuing passionate careers.

Jeff Kuta
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#24 Post by Jeff Kuta » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:47 pm

It's not about shipping refugees back to war zones.

It's about shipping them back to shitholes that they've never called home after being born in the United States.

leon1122
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#25 Post by leon1122 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:32 am

It's not about DACA recipients in particular. It's about the system that amnesty of any form helps to support. By keeping DACA, you can't deport the family of DACA recipients either because you'd be "separating families", and much of those family members do work in unsafe, underpaid blue collar jobs. Moreover, by keeping DACA in place, it further incentivizes selfish parents to rip their children from their home country (up to that point the only country they've known) and bring them to the US for use as anchor children. There, the parents go on to work for the industrial agriculture monster, further propping up the system.

IMHO, amnesty advocates are way too short-sighted, only looking at the suffering of those already here and ignoring the future grief that amnesty will cause.

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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#26 Post by JamesYanik » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:49 am

there are a three options:

1. we deport them all

2. we legalize them all

3. we do nothing


option 3 is indefensible for me, but there's legitimate argument for 1 and 2, and I think the current proposition wouldn't be the end of the world.

but after the legalization, we'd have to start enforcing border control strictly. we can't just keep doing this in waves, a one-time legalization will shake up the economy enough as it is...

Ogion
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#27 Post by Ogion » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:31 am

And of course there's a whole bunch of options.

We provide a series of options for people in different circumstances reflecting a judicious balancing of interests and values. More brainpower needed than most conservatives have, but there are a lot of policy options.

And there won't be any real disruption to the economy. We're talking 800,000 out of 330 millions people, many of whom are minors or young. Frankly, the savage deportation policy would be the most disruptive. Hell, Alabama lost a lot of its fruit crop when it rotted after a big crackdown there. Do nothing would have been a better choice.

Ogion
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#28 Post by Ogion » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:32 am

Of course they are, TrPrado. Generally, immigrants are harder working and less prone to criminality than native born people

CAPT Brad
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#29 Post by CAPT Brad » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:47 am

that statement includes you ogion. are you saying you are a lazy good for nothing native?

CAPT Brad
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#30 Post by CAPT Brad » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:48 am

next you will probably claim that trump is carpetbombing matzatlan.

CAPT Brad
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#31 Post by CAPT Brad » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:49 am

the unfettered immigration to the los angeles area is one of the reasons that a top class school district is now a third world disaster. the other reason is the democrat control of the school board

CAPT Brad
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#32 Post by CAPT Brad » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:50 am

when are you emigrating to ethiopia ogion?

leon1122
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#33 Post by leon1122 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:20 am

Ogion wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:31 am
Hell, Alabama lost a lot of its fruit crop when it rotted after a big crackdown there. Do nothing would have been a better choice.
Again, we see here a shining example of a Democrat promoting plantation labor.

TrPrado
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#34 Post by TrPrado » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:13 am

JamesYanik wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:49 am
there are a three options:

1. we deport them all

2. we legalize them all

3. we do nothing


option 3 is indefensible for me, but there's legitimate argument for 1 and 2, and I think the current proposition wouldn't be the end of the world.

but after the legalization, we'd have to start enforcing border control strictly. we can't just keep doing this in waves, a one-time legalization will shake up the economy enough as it is...
I’m on board with legalize + strongly enforce laws, but the laws also need serious updates. Bureaucratic red tape is a central reason for people’s coming here being illegal, and that tape needs to be cleared up. I have a friend whose parents went from Bangladesh to Canada legally, then from Canada to the US legally, but on the trip from Canada the Canadian government lost his, and his alone, papers, so he suddenly became an illegal immigrant.

20 years to gain residency is unrealistic for a lot of families as well. The system needs to be addressed in a fair few ways.

It should also be a strict felony for companies to violate workers’ protections for illegal immigrant employees because a fair bit of the way they’re treated is quite offputting.

`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo`
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#35 Post by `ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:08 am

The South's plantations did take a significant hit during the Reconstruction Era. Plantation owners in the South relied heavily on slave labor, but many plantations had to downsize or quit from being war-torn or having to pay their workers more. Just didn't want leon's ridiculous statement from earlier to go unchecked.

When Trump was first elected, my greatest fear was that he wasn't lying and would fulfill his campaign promises. But if amnesty is granted to a majority of illegals, I wouldn't even be against the Wall. Attack the drugs and not the "plantation labor" as leon calls it.

`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo`
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#36 Post by `ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:22 am

Also, I completely disagree with making discrimination a strict felony. That's so absurd, I don't even know where to start. I used to work at an immigration law firm, and believe me, there is a fine line between employee disciplinary action and discrimination. You wouldn't see many judges convicting managers of discrimination if its a felony. Either that, or companies would have to treat immigrants like royalty. Also, another thing to consider is that some countries do not have as strong a work ethic as USA does. This is just too complicated a matter. A company should be fined and deal with firing employees internally.

TrPrado
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#37 Post by TrPrado » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:48 am

I mean I mostly meant minimum wage violations.

Ogion
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#38 Post by Ogion » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:18 am

leon, if there are minimum wage violations then the employers need to be in prison. That isn't different if the workers are documented or not. As it is, you have zero evidence whether there are wage issues.

And, um, without people working on farms, where does your food come from? That's a reality not a "plantation mentality"

What a typical bunch of conservative bullshit. Swear you guys all show signs of fetal alcohol syndrome.

Ogion
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#39 Post by Ogion » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:19 am

Ah, ND is unfamiliar with what "Generally" refers to, but as a group, yes, immigrants on average have a clearly lower crime rate. Of course, that includes me, but then I'm one of the folks who don't go around committing crimes, but that isn't to say the rate isn't higher.

And yeah, of the proportion of people simply not working on public assistance, disproportionately non-immigrant.

JamesYanik
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Re: Trump calls for "pathway to citizenship" in exchange for a wall.

#40 Post by JamesYanik » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:22 am

"leon, if there are minimum wage violations then the employers need to be in prison. That isn't different if the workers are documented or not. As it is, you have zero evidence whether there are wage issues."

oh illegal immigrants are definitely suffering from wage abuse in this country Ogion, if they dare complain they get deported. I thought out of everyone on this site YOU'D know how shitty corporations treat many of these people



"And, um, without people working on farms, where does your food come from? That's a reality not a "plantation mentality" "

um... in 20 years there's a lot more automation to come I 100% guarantee it. and with people starting to go against large-scale industrial farming, there's more and more of a micro market for localized more expensive food, and also a macro market that's trying to push in synthesized food. I'd reckon we're not TOO far off.



"What a typical bunch of conservative bullshit. Swear you guys all show signs of fetal alcohol syndrome."

forum guidelines Ogion, keep inside 'em or else you're going to get yourself silenced

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