Government Shutdown

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Manwe Sulimo
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Re: Government Shutdown

#81 Post by Manwe Sulimo » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:28 pm

He hasn’t agreed to continue negotiating the border separately. You can’t separate negotiating the budget from the wall because that’s where the funding for the wall has to come from. If the democrats don’t agree to fund the wall within 3 weeks, the government could very well shutdown once again.
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Re: Government Shutdown

#82 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:43 pm

orathaic wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:54 pm
@Syria, it has mostly been Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia interfering, and they deserve every bit as much criticism as the UK/US would have gotten from me. Though if I am critical of the UK, citizens there might be able to change it, I doubt my voice will have much impact on the House of Saud, or Iranian regime.
Direct US military intervention began in September 2014 (which-pre dates Russian direct intervention by around a year) with the armed forces of the UK, France, Jordan, Turkey, Canada and Australia also involved in these actions.

There have been substantial civilian casualties as a result of US-led action and Amnesty International has reported that the US-led coalition has falsified data to conceal the actual number of civilian deaths resulting from their bombing campaigns and is "deeply in denial" about civilian casualties in Raqqa.

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Re: Government Shutdown

#83 Post by orathaic » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:29 pm

Yes, I'm vaguely aware of the Western influence, and of Trump's decision to withdraw US troops, at Putin's request.

Syria is so much more the US/British Imperialism though. It is a mess, with ample blame to go round.

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Re: Government Shutdown

#84 Post by ksako8 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:53 pm

Trump apparently caved

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orathaic
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Re: Government Shutdown

#85 Post by orathaic » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:03 pm

ksako8 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:53 pm
Trump apparently caved
For what? Three weeks (plus back pay)

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Re: Government Shutdown

#86 Post by ND » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Trump is allowing the government to reopen on a temporary basis so we can get the 5 billion dollars to fund the wall. If that doesn't happen it will get shut down again.

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Re: Government Shutdown

#87 Post by ksako8 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:15 pm

Which is contrary to what he said the last few weeks
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Re: Government Shutdown

#88 Post by Octavious » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:20 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:51 am
Octavious wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:04 pm
Syria's hell is primarily of its own making. A hell that Britain and the West, at the urging of the pacifist left in this country, did nothing to remedy. The massive death and suffering in Syria is what non-interventionism looks like.
You think we have not been intervening in Syria? What planet do you live on?
The planet where apparently Europe can build 1000km of border wall without you noticing. Seriously, man, how can you be so hypersensitive to the Yanks' wall antics but completely oblivious to the same shit in our own backyard?

All meaningful intervention was killed off in the summer of 2013 when the British left rose as one and voted to abandon the movements in favour of freedom and democracy in Syria. Our pitiful actions since then have been little more than damage limitation and face saving exercises.
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Re: Government Shutdown

#89 Post by Randomizer » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:53 pm

I think the tweet about Trump folding like a cheap suit is the most appropriate description of his actions. Republican senators were deserting and now he can give his State of the Union speech in a venue where people might listen.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... a6d3ba2c9a

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Re: Government Shutdown

#90 Post by ND » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:57 am

I am actually kind of disappointed with Trump. Damn.
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Re: Government Shutdown

#91 Post by ND » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:58 am

I can't spin this really anymore my heart isn't in it. We lost. And it sucks.
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Re: Government Shutdown

#92 Post by ksako8 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:39 am

Thanks for admitting you were spinning before
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Re: Government Shutdown

#93 Post by orathaic » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:34 pm

@ND Trump gets to make his State of the Union address, and then shut the govt back down in what, a few weeks?

This isn't over...

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Re: Government Shutdown

#94 Post by Octavious » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:14 pm

From what I heard Trump was told by Republicans in congress that they could no longer support his stance. But as Ora says, this is a long way from over. What troubles me is that the Democrats seem to think they've won a great victory and Trump is all but defeated, which suggests they've learned absolutely nothing in the past few years.
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Re: Government Shutdown

#95 Post by ND » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:23 pm

orathaic wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:34 pm
@ND Trump gets to make his State of the Union address, and then shut the govt back down in what, a few weeks?

This isn't over...
/sigh I guess

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Re: Government Shutdown

#96 Post by flash2015 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:20 pm

Octavious wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:14 pm
From what I heard Trump was told by Republicans in congress that they could no longer support his stance. But as Ora says, this is a long way from over. What troubles me is that the Democrats seem to think they've won a great victory and Trump is all but defeated, which suggests they've learned absolutely nothing in the past few years.
I don't know whether it is crowing in victory, but it certainly is a sigh of relief.

But Trump certainly has diminished himself "bigly" through this. He thought the democrats after achieving a big victory in the midterms were going to fold like cheap suits immediately after. What the hell was he smoking?? This all doesn't look good for his image as the "master negotiator". Even Anne Coulter, one of his most fervent supporters now calls Trump "the biggest wimp to ever server as President of the United States".

Given the nature of US elections, almost everything a president is going to achieve is going to happen in the first or perhaps the second year in office. If this really was his priority he should have pushed for funding in the first few months in office, not right after his policies got rebuffed in the midterms.
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Re: Government Shutdown

#97 Post by orathaic » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:48 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47015797

In which Trump spins this concession as 'not a concession' and says he did it to help workers hurt by the shutdown.

Trump is excellent at fixing problems he himself created. Some excellent work there.

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Re: Government Shutdown

#98 Post by Octavious » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:12 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:20 pm
Given the nature of US elections, almost everything a president is going to achieve is going to happen in the first or perhaps the second year in office. If this really was his priority he should have pushed for funding in the first few months in office, not right after his policies got rebuffed in the midterms.
Indeed, and if this is obvious to us it's obvious to Trump as well. The thought occurs that a wall that doesn't get built can't fail. As things stand it remains a solution popular amongst many Trump supporters that only stands a chance of happening if Trump is re-elected. Imagine how damaging to Trump's election chances a shiny new and hugely expensive failure would be.

Frankly if the Democrats were so convinced the wall was a stupid idea the best thing they could have done is let Trump build the bloody thing and beat him over the head with it. Instead the Democrats are telling everyone who will listen that they stopped the wall, which means every time a bunch of desperate Venezuelans march north to the border Trump can blame them.
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Re: Government Shutdown

#99 Post by orathaic » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:58 pm

@Octavious, I'm not sure handing him a win would do anything other than embolden his base.

When Ann Coulter says he is a wimp for backing down, you can see his base slip, though they'll be back in his corner when he fights the next time...

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Re: Government Shutdown

#100 Post by Randomizer » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:04 am

Building a wall only helps Trump with his base support.

The money could be spent to hire more border patrol agents, reinforce ports of entry where almost all the problems occur, expand the courts to speed up cases to remove criminals, and better equipment to watch between ports of entry.

Right now there are fewer immigrants at the border than a few years ago. It's a fake news issue to get racist support.

Worse is that ICE tries to deport natural born US citizens to countries where they are citizens.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/03/us/us-ci ... index.html

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