Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

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Jamiet99uk
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Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#1 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:17 pm

President Donald Trump has announced plans to use an Executive Order to repeal the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution and end the 150-year-old concept of "birthright citizenship".

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-plan ... 018-10-30/

Since right-wingers are known for their love of the Constitution, what do the conservatives / Republicans on this forum make of the Orange Buffoon's plan to rip up the 14th Amendment without even seeking the approval of the legislature?

And hey, if you think this is perfectly ok, you can never, never again defend gun ownership on the basis of "muh muh the Constitution tho!"

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#2 Post by TrPrado » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:20 am

I’ve seen someone suggest Trump’s legal team might have come up with something that complies with the first sentence of Amendment XIV of the Constitution, to which I responded that it’s not exactly repealing birthright citizenship if that’s the case.

If it does, it’ll immediately draw a lawsuit and stricken down by the Court, much faster than Congress would be able to grow a spine and stand up to what is very easily Executive overreach to overturn it themselves.

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#3 Post by brainbomb » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:49 pm

I.mean lets say youre born here and your parents die a week later. Where are you a citizen of lol?

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#4 Post by Randomizer » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:36 pm

brainbomb wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:49 pm
I.mean lets say youre born here and your parents die a week later. Where are you a citizen of lol?
It depends upon where your parents are from, but current law gives you at least US citizenship. Rich Chinese for years were buying package tours where they could come to the US and give birth here so their children would have both US and Chinese citizenship. Some countries allow you to get citizenship based upon your ancestor being from there even generations later.

The only reason Trump has US citizenship is Germany wouldn't take his grandfather back.

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#5 Post by flash2015 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:37 pm

An important outstanding question in all this - Does Bruce Springstein need to update his song?
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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#6 Post by TrPrado » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:45 pm

A conservative friend of mine explained the logic being based on the phrase “subject to the laws thereof” in the amendment as being able to restrict anchor babies from citizenship and also very strongly drawing on the historical context that the amendment primarily was meant for protecting freed slaves. He also stated the argument is obviously absurdly weak (there’d obviously be a bizarre legal limbo where someone can be born and simultaneously be a citizen and noncitizen) and that he’s also not a fan of the excecutive overreach factor.

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#7 Post by Octavious » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:02 pm

If your parents are travelling in the US whilst pregnant with you, and have a premature birth, does that mean the US considers you a Yank whether you want it or not?
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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#8 Post by Randomizer » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:05 pm

Octavious wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:02 pm
If your parents are travelling in the US whilst pregnant with you, and have a premature birth, does that mean the US considers you a Yank whether you want it or not?
You can always give up citizenship, but so it before you have taxable income otherwise the IRS can come after it. :)

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#9 Post by TrPrado » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:48 pm

It’s common practice with a lot of the Western Hemisphere.

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#10 Post by Octavious » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:41 am

It's fairly common practice in the Americas, from what I've read, but pretty rare in what is traditionally referred to as the West.

Still a bit unclear as to how it works though. If you're unfortunate enough to have been born in the US, do you get a birth certificate that allows you to opt in to US citizenship if the mood takes you, or do you have U.S. citizenship thrust upon you like an inherited disease, and it's up to you to get rid of it?

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#11 Post by flash2015 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:45 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:41 am
It's fairly common practice in the Americas, from what I've read, but pretty rare in what is traditionally referred to as the West.

Still a bit unclear as to how it works though. If you're unfortunate enough to have been born in the US, do you get a birth certificate that allows you to opt in to US citizenship if the mood takes you, or do you have U.S. citizenship thrust upon you like an inherited disease, and it's up to you to get rid of it?
The second option - if you ignore it it can lead to a hefty tax bill later in life. Boris Johnson recently gave up his US citizenship (he was born in Manhattan to British parents):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -secretary
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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#12 Post by Octavious » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:53 pm

Yikes! In that case more power to Trump's elbow. The sooner the Yanks put an end to this State sponsored baby snatching the better.

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#13 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:50 am

The point I was making was more about the fact that right wingers in the US jerk off over their constitution, and at the same time their beloved Prez thinks he can amend it at his whim. I was wondering where that left them.

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#14 Post by Octavious » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:42 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:50 am
The point I was making was more about the fact that right wingers in the US jerk off over their constitution, and at the same time their beloved Prez thinks he can amend it at his whim. I was wondering where that left them.
I know, but where's the fun in simply agreeing with you? :razz:

I dare say a lot of the love of the constitution only exists because it happens to agree with them. Conservatives, by their nature, will find themselves agreeing with the status quo more often than not, and there's nothing more status quo than a written constitution. To British conservative eyes the American status quo is somewhat different to ours, and so their constitution seems rather alien and weird.


Of course, amending the constitution is also a part of the American status quo, so on the occasions where US conservatives find themselves disagreeing with it I dare say it won't take much in the way of mental gymnastics to support tweaking it. Does that weaken the constitutional argument in favour of gun rights? Probably. But I doubt that pointing this out will convince any of the pro gun people to change their minds.
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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#15 Post by Randomizer » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:15 pm

Conservatives in the US support anything that agrees with their views on the subject. They support the Constitution for second amendment gun rights, but don't care about first amendment freedom of speech or now the 14th amendment. They support states' right over the federal government unless its California or another liberal state with same sex marriages, pro abortion, or the environment as examples.

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#16 Post by Jamiet99uk » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:44 pm

I see ND is hiding from this thread.

Sad!

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Re: Trump to tear up 14th Amendment

#17 Post by Stressedlines » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:46 am

is there a lot of other nations that actually practice this?

Im just curious, and since I was born to immigrants (already in place for years) then it would have never effected me, but if people are coming here for the SOLE purpose of having a kid to be a citizen, then there is something odd about that.

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