Celebration of America

[Stressedlines]

They are batshit crazy. That's not racial or anything else. That's just the fact. The shit that comes out of their mouth would be comedy of ot wasnt 4 members of congress

[Stressedlines]

And for the record I am.not a trump guy as nd and carl will attest to

And ethnic and racial is t splitting hairs. They are different. Telling 4 jabbering twits like that anything isnt being racial unless he is calling all women of color out

Those 4 morons called Nancy Pelosi and joe Biden racists (implied strongly)

Gtfo they are dipshits. All 4 as Pelosi said a cup of tea with a D next to their name.would win their districts

[Stressedlines]

btw Flash, I am American and my parents are both immigrants I know what the difference is between all those things, as I got it my the fistful in Boston and Kentucky both Didn't hurt me, but never once did I feel it was 'racial' as much as I just different. Simple fact was, I wasn't, since I was born here, but my parents got it from white people either for Beig catholic, or having an accent

Everyone is so freakoing sensitive get over yourselves people The world don't owe ya shit

[ND]

Stressed is right on these points.

[Carl Tuckerson]

They are batshit crazy. That's not racial or anything else. That's just the fact. The shit that comes out of their mouth would be comedy of ot wasnt 4 members of congress

I find it funnier that they are. Idiocracy was a goddamn prophecy.

[flash2015]

I am going to tell you right now and say this as frankly as I can. I don't care what CNN says. They are basically 'the brain' or intelligence wing of the Democratic Party. They are as blatantly biased as humanly possible. Using them as evidence does nothing for your case.

Are you saying "facts have a liberal bias"? I am happy to discuss facts which I am unaware of. I am quite happy to be shown that I may be missing something here.
But you aren't presenting any new information, you are just ignoring the facts you don't like...and just repeating talking points mantra to me. Even, Giraldo Rivera who I understand is a strong Trump supporter thinks Trump is being racist here:

https://twitter.com/GeraldoRivera/statu ... 3610909698

"Sad to watch my friend @realDonaldTrump take low road regarding @AOC of the Bronx, @RashidaTlaib of Detroit @AyannaPressley of Boston & @Ilhan of Somalia & Minneapolis. Let’s stick to issues & steer clear of language that’s xenophobic even racist. @POTUS you’re better than that."

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course, but the "marketplace of ideas" all breaks down if everyone just ignores the facts that they don't like.

[flash2015]

And for the record I am.not a trump guy as nd and carl will attest to

And ethnic and racial is t splitting hairs. They are different. Telling 4 jabbering twits like that anything isnt being racial unless he is calling all women of color out

Those 4 morons called Nancy Pelosi and joe Biden racists (implied strongly)

Gtfo they are dipshits. All 4 as Pelosi said a cup of tea with a D next to their name.would win their districts

And I am not a supporter of the four or their policies. I do, however, believe strongly in free speech and unlike many supposed "free speech" advocates I am for free speech that I agree AND disagree with (you will see me respond to bo in a different thread about my concerns that he was shutting down debate on immigration). I go out of my way to read and try and understand opinions I disagree with, no matter how objectionable I may personally find them at first glance. For the record, as I have said before, I don't agree with many of their views, just that they have the right to say them, and if people are going to criticize them they actually need to bring arguments to the table...rather than trying to shut them down and threaten them through racism (not saying you are of course).

Let's go back to what the president said. What are the implications of this "Go back to your own country"? At least to my understand he is effectively saying "You are not allowed to disagree with 'us'"...and if you continue not to we are going to "Send you back". And to bolster this argument he makes up lots of lies about the four to increase the hatred and animosity for the four.

Note that all four of them are American citizens...three out of four are born in the US. When do non-white people become 'us' rather than 'them'? On citizenship? One generation? Two generation (I suspect Ayanna Presley's family has been here for many generations but I haven't found a link yet to confirm/deny)? If these four were all first or second generation Western European immigrants with similar views do you think Trump could have said the same thing?

The ONLY possible valid justification for Trump's tweets would have been if he had specifically only targeted only Ilhan Omar AND Ilhan Omar had specifically been comparing the US to Somalia and saying how much better it is over there and complaining how bad it is here compared to there. I don't know of any place she has said that. If you can find it for me, I will be happy to be proven wrong.

There is a constant theme about people being "too sensitive" to ideas that may be deemed racist yet I would argue that people get way too sensitive when hearing even slight criticism of the USA or its actions. Everyone either needs to be more sensitive of the feelings of others or we don't. You can't have it both ways.

Yes, I absolutely agree they are being stupid in criticising Pelosi or Biden. I don't they have (yet) made the transition from activists to politicians very well...and they are hurting their own interests by doing this. As I have said before democracy is about making messy compromises between competing interests...and I would argue that most people in government, both on left/right/center other are honourable people. I think it would now behoove someone like Ilhan Omar (in a better world she wouldn't need to do this) to make a speech how she loves the country and say she only criticizes because she wants to make it better.

But again, the squad are entitled to have different opinions and if people disagree and want to engage then they should represent their opinions honestly...and not throw back at them implied threats because they "dare" to disagree.

[flash2015]

They are batshit crazy. That's not racial or anything else. That's just the fact. The shit that comes out of their mouth would be comedy of ot wasnt 4 members of congress

I find it funnier that they are. Idiocracy was a goddamn prophecy.

Yes, Idiocracy IS a funny film. But you know that it is essentially suggesting a eugenics argument, don't you? I only bring this up because eugenics was previously brought up in this thread.

[flash2015]

Just to make it clear as I read through my comments, I want to make sure that no one thinks I am meaning to call anyone I have responded to on the thread racist. If you think I have called someone here racist, I apologize. I am just calling what Trump has said pretty much blatantly racist.

[ND]

@Randomizer

You are comparing Robert Byrd, a sitting U.S. Senator and KKK recruiter and member to David Duke, a State Senator. Byrd served for like 40 years in the Senate and what Duke a couple of years? The comparison, unfortunately, is rubbish. And, you know it. Or how about we look at all the Democrats who were for segregation and massive resistance during the 60s and 70s? You know the Democrat Segregationists that Joe Biden was good friends with? There is noting equatable to the Republicans. The Democratic Party has always been a party of racists while Republicans have championed Civil Rights, Emancipation, and Equality to the present.

Trump supporters among White Supremacist groups? I think there are more racial supremacist groups that support the Democratic Party than the Republican Party. https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/20 ... -president

The KKK Grand Dragon even supported Hillary Clinton in 2016. Your views are simply wrong Randomizer. I recommend you do some research before you challenge me because you simply don’t know what you are talking about.

Nah, the mainstream press was mostly against Trump not Clinton. There were studies done that show that Trump received way more negative press.

Yes, Illegal’s and the Democrats are committing voter fraud. Eventually this will be brought to light, but even now without direct proof we know that this is influencing the electoral college: https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration ... hink-again Good, glad Arizona is trying to crack down on illegal alien voting.

@Flash
No, facts don’t have a bias. However, CNN rarely reports straight facts instead everyone at CNN offers an opinion, argument, or editorializes the “facts”.

A fact would be, “President Trump made a tweet today” an Editorialized, leftist, opinion of the tweet would be “President Trump made a racist tweet today”

Do you see the difference? I know it must be hard. Perhaps, you should take a few courses in public speaking after you get out of Middle or High School. Then you will know the difference between an opinion or editorial and a fact. And, if you think CNN is actually just reporting facts then you are so far gone down the rabbit hole that no one on Earth can save you now. My only mission is to try and help you stop spewing ignorance all over this thread, okay?

Giraldo Rivera is a talking head who offers opinions. He doesn’t report straight facts. He offers an opinion on a situation. Again, know the difference.

Well, I would hope you aren’t a supporter of their ideas. After all, one of them is openly anti-semetic and doesn’t see anything wrong with Al Qaeda.

Okay, let’s go back to what the President said. “You are not allowed to disagree with us” Huh, he never said that. See that is your opinion on what he said not a fact. He was simply stating they hate the country, praise our enemies, and asking why are they here? A good question in my opinion. It’s common place for people to move from a country following an election result they don’t like. There is a large number of ex-pats living in other countries, etc. If people despise who is elected or hate the country they live in then they are free to move. Just like you are free to move to another thread if you don’t like who is posting in it instead of spewing random ignorance. Do you understand?

When did Trump ever point out their race or call them non-white? Never happened. He never even identified their names in his tweets! Now, I know why America is so dumbed down. It’s because people listen to fake news like CNN.

I don’t think anyone is arguing for eugenics except the Democrats @Flash. They are the ones who support abortion clinics and abortion on demand and in some places abortion after birth. A lot of these clinics are in minority areas see the link below. Also, the Progressive Movement started the eugenics movement in the early 1900s and Hitler used that as a basis for his own program. So, yeah, in my opinion Eugenics/Progressivism is directly tied to the Modern Democrats. And, in my opinion, they are the Eugenics supporters not the Republicans who want to end the practice of murdering children. https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/02/48594/
https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... -eugenics/

[Carl Tuckerson]

They are batshit crazy. That's not racial or anything else. That's just the fact. The shit that comes out of their mouth would be comedy of ot wasnt 4 members of congress

I find it funnier that they are. Idiocracy was a goddamn prophecy.

Yes, Idiocracy IS a funny film. But you know that it is essentially suggesting a eugenics argument, don't you? I only bring this up because eugenics was previously brought up in this thread.

At risk of derailing a different and more important conversation, I'm going to reply to this and leave it alone, because you're right that it wasn't brought up. If you're interested in following up feel free to DM me.
Basically it does and I don't see a problem with acknowledging the existence of dysgenic reproductive trends with respect to intelligence, though I of course acknowledge both the difficult in clearly defining and quantifying those trends beyond an anecdotal level and the moral difficulties in attempting to engineer corrections in those trends.
I was joking about Idiocracy being a literal prophecy or prediction, it's just (grimly) amusing that I feel I can even draw parallels at all given that it was (as far as I can tell) meant to be absurdist humor.

[Stressedlines]

Just to make it clear as I read through my comments, I want to make sure that no one thinks I am meaning to call anyone I have responded to on the thread racist. If you think I have called someone here racist, I apologize. I am just calling what Trump has said pretty much blatantly racist.

Again. Where does he mention race in that all? This is my general issue. The race card is used to the point that when there is actual racism.people are sorta sneering cuz it's the boy who cried wolf

[flash2015]

@Flash
No, facts don’t have a bias. However, CNN rarely reports straight facts instead everyone at CNN offers an opinion, argument, or editorializes the “facts”.

A fact would be, “President Trump made a tweet today” an Editorialized, leftist, opinion of the tweet would be “President Trump made a racist tweet today”

Do you see the difference? I know it must be hard. Perhaps, you should take a few courses in public speaking after you get out of Middle or High School. Then you will know the difference between an opinion or editorial and a fact. And, if you think CNN is actually just reporting facts then you are so far gone down the rabbit hole that no one on Earth can save you now. My only mission is to try and help you stop spewing ignorance all over this thread, okay?

You are deflecting. There are specific facts represented in the articles how the EEOC has ruled on statements about "Go back to your own country". You **could** have responded and say, yes, the EEOC was right in these cases but is wrong here and this is why. You could have argued that CNN was misrepresenting the EEOC and provided additional information why. You could have presented a nuanced argument on how "Go back to your own country" is a reasonable argument in certain circumstances and not in others and I would willingly try and understand your reasoning.

But no, you just ignore the facts and repeat your talking points...and try to throw in some juvenile insults as well. Are you a bot or something?

Giraldo Rivera is a talking head who offers opinions. He doesn’t report straight facts. He offers an opinion on a situation. Again, know the difference.

Well, I would hope you aren’t a supporter of their ideas. After all, one of them is openly anti-semetic and doesn’t see anything wrong with Al Qaeda.

Giraldo Rivera has been a strong supporter of Trump so it is kind of notable that even he thinks the tweets are too much. Are you saying he is wrong? Why?

Again, I have said before I am not a supporter of many of their ideas. I do however dislike the push to silence them...and I think it is wrong to lie and misrepresent what they have said. Ilhan Omar has apologized about the tweets which some people thought were anti-Semitic. Has Trump apologized for any of the crazy stuff he writes...from his racist tweets to insulting war heroes? Show me where she has said that there is nothing wrong with Al-Qaeda. I haven't found any evidence of her saying that...but if you can point me in the right direction I am happy to be proven wrong.

Okay, let’s go back to what the President said. “You are not allowed to disagree with us” Huh, he never said that. See that is your opinion on what he said not a fact. He was simply stating they hate the country, praise our enemies, and asking why are they here? A good question in my opinion. It’s common place for people to move from a country following an election result they don’t like. There is a large number of ex-pats living in other countries, etc. If people despise who is elected or hate the country they live in then they are free to move. Just like you are free to move to another thread if you don’t like who is posting in it instead of spewing random ignorance. Do you understand?

When did Trump ever point out their race or call them non-white? Never happened. He never even identified their names in his tweets! Now, I know why America is so dumbed down. It’s because people listen to fake news like CNN.

It is amazing how willingly blind you are. Show me where they say they hate the USA. Show me where they say they support Al Qaeda. All being citizens they have as much right as you do to express what they believe is right or wrong with the country and how they believe it should be changed. But unlike you, since they are all congresswomen, doing this is part of their very job description. The president has every right to disagree with them and challenge them in the "marketplace of ideas". If the president's ideas are better they surely will win, won't they? What he doesn't have the right to do is blatantly lie and make up stuff about them...and try to stop them speaking at all by saying if they don't agree they should "Go back to their own country".

They are the ones who support abortion clinics and abortion on demand and in some places abortion after birth. A lot of these clinics are in minority areas see the link below. Also, the Progressive Movement started the eugenics movement in the early 1900s and Hitler used that as a basis for his own program. So, yeah, in my opinion Eugenics/Progressivism is directly tied to the Modern Democrats. And, in my opinion, they are the Eugenics supporters not the Republicans who want to end the practice of murdering children. https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/02/48594/
https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... -eugenics/

Ugh, what a fantasy world you live in. Stupid BS like this is why the US is so f*** up in this area (the idea that if only the Jews had more guns the Holocaust would never happened is another of this stupid stuff). Note that the articles you pointed me to are not only anti-abortion but anti-contraception. So you believe contraception is evil too, that women should not have a choice, other than not having sex at all, in when or whether they should have children?

How is people using birth control or having abortions **through their own choice** in any way eugenics or genocide? The idea is just so stupid on so many levels it just doesn't even deserve a serious response.

[flash2015]

Just to make it clear as I read through my comments, I want to make sure that no one thinks I am meaning to call anyone I have responded to on the thread racist. If you think I have called someone here racist, I apologize. I am just calling what Trump has said pretty much blatantly racist.

Again. Where does he mention race in that all? This is my general issue. The race card is used to the point that when there is actual racism.people are sorta sneering cuz it's the boy who cried wolf

They are all US citizens. How could Trump even suggest they should go back to their own country...if they don't have another country to go back to? Thought experiment - would Trump have suggested that a white congressman (e.g. named John Smith) born in Britain but a naturalized US citizen should go back to his own country? The only way I can see he can say this is because to some people the four don't "look" American. How can you interpret it another way?

[ND]

@Flash

“You are deflecting” No. I straight up answered your question.

“EEOC has ruled on statements about ‘Go back to your own country.’” Okay, this may be a big surprise to you so stay with me. The EEOC or Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is simply an agency that policies workplace guidelines and allows workers to lodge a complaint against their employer if they believe they are being discriminated against. Ready, for the twist @Flash? The EEOC has no power over the President, the President’s tweets were not in a workplace, and whatever the EEOC guidelines say have no bearing on this. Why? Because, duh the Congresswoman in question don’t work for the President. I feel like I am losing brain cells writing this to you. Seriously, who the heck cares? The EEOC has literally no guidance or power on this. It’s a political issue not a workplace issue. Duh. Did I dumb that down enough for you to understand?

I seriously don’t care what Giraldo Rivera has to say and no one else does either. And, yeah he is wrong because the tweet wasn’t racist.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/16/re ... terrorism/

Omar refuses to denounce Al-Qaeda. I don’t know anyone on earth who would refuse to denounce them unless she supported them.

Trump doesn’t need to apologize for anything. He hasn’t done anything wrong. And, yeah Omar needs to apologize for being anti-semetic and refusing to denounce Al-Qaeda. Just think we have a US Congresswoman running around refusing to denounce Al-Qaeda and saying anti-semetic things about Jewish people. Ugh. It makes me sick.

“Show me where they say they hate the USA.” Um, their statements. Refusing to denounce Al-Qaeda, being anti-semetic, and putting down Americans. https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/qanta-a ... m-religion

“Fantasy World” What? Yeah, if the Jewish people hadn’t been stripped of their guns they could have defended themselves. Yeah, I am against the murder of children. 100%. I am against people murdering babies and children. Anyone who supports abortion is morally bankrupt. I don’t want to see children be murdered. I don’t think women should have a choice to kill someone, a living person, no. Sorry, but no. No one should have the power to murder a child or baby.

[Stressedlines]

Flash. That's an opinion of yours.

Let a white person join the squad and they will also be subject to the same.verbal assaults from The God Emporer. He disagrees with plenty of non whites but doesn't ask them.to go back

The fact that these 4 have outlandish ideas and also happen to not be white is bot racism.

Also remember this. Trump loves Israel. These 4 go out of their way to verbally attack that nation. He is what he is but your opinion is just that...an opinion

[flash2015]

Flash. That's an opinion of yours.

Let a white person join the squad and they will also be subject to the same.verbal assaults from The God Emporer. He disagrees with plenty of non whites but doesn't ask them.to go back

The fact that these 4 have outlandish ideas and also happen to not be white is bot racism.

Also remember this. Trump loves Israel. These 4 go out of their way to verbally attack that nation. He is what he is but your opinion is just that...an opinion

But I don't understand and I repeat again - THEY HAVE NO OTHER COUNTRY TO GO TO. Since this is the case how can **anyone** say they can go back to their own country???

If they were white he would have chosen different insults...because no-one would have taken the "Go back to your own country" seriously directed at white American citizens. It is ONLY because they are deemed non-white that we are having this discussion at all. Just like Omar's statements which were deemed to be antisemitic (again which she apologized for), the "go back to your country" is more than just another insult or criticism and has a long, long history pointing to prejudice. You can't complain about one then give the other a pass.

Whether they have outlandish ideas is irrelevant. Whether they attack Israel's policies is irrelevant - it should be possible to criticize Israel as much as any other country. We aren't Thailand where it is a crime to criticize certain things. I can understand if the "Go back to your own country" statement is said to me, because I don't have US citizenship...and I am very careful in how I phrase arguments with people here given how people are so "sensitive" to arguments which may be perceived as portraying the US in a negative light. But again it is completely and utterly invalid and wrong to suggest this to them as they are US citizens and they have every right to hold opinions which may not agree with yours, no matter how outlandish you think they are.

Even Chris Wallace from Fox News believes Trump is stoking racial divisions with his statements:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 790299001/

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. I am just saddened that you can think this way...because what Trump has done here is so very, very wrong.

[Stressedlines]

Didnu say it was right? Dont put words in my.mouth. I never once said that or agreed with what he said. I said it wasnt racist. Stop trying to change the angle of this conversation

[Stressedlines]

And I dont cRe if they attack israel. Dont mean shit to me. But it does to trump

You keep throwing things out there I have not said and using them against me. I dont gice a flying f about israel. Or that they said it. He does though

[Jamiet99uk]

@ND: Which country should they go back to?