China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

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Chaqa
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China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#1 Post by Chaqa » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:29 pm

What a perfect storm this week LOL

Everyone's thoughts?

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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#2 Post by Octavious » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:34 pm

Can't say I have a Scooby what you're on about :-)

This weekend sees England and France play at the world cup, although Japan Scotland is the one I'm most looking forward to. Hopefully the big storm won't cause them to be cancelled.

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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#3 Post by WyattS14 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:00 pm

Lest we forget about the United State’s president just blatantly agreeing to pull out of Syria, completely abandoning our Kurdish allies and leaving them to be picked off by Turkish soldiers and terrorist regimes. He’s very educated in the matter though. And he could “tank Turkey’s economy” if the deal went sour.

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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#4 Post by orathaic » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:30 pm

The two fears for Northern Syria are genocide being committed against the Kurds (while Turkey then relocates Syria refugees to the land they have freed up) and the freeing of thousands of ISIS fighters currently held by the kurds in make-shift prison camps. (Kurds are currently blaming European countries for failing to facilitate international tribunals to try these fighters, and Turkey is suspected of supporting any Sunni Islamic fighters against the Iranian allied Syrian government.

In the US the President has refused to co-operate with the impeachment investigation, which may amount to obstruction of justice, a new charge to be brought against Trump and/or his administration. This much clearly plays to the Democrats (after all, if they had nothing to hide they would have nothing to fear, right?)
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#5 Post by orathaic » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:37 pm

Meanwhile 100s have died in protests in Iraq, continued violence in Hong Kong, Irish and British see a rise in violence over the British border in Ireland and failure of the Johnson govt to try negotiating a Brexit deal.

OECD has recommended a new tax global regime which should force taxes to be paid (by apple, Facebook and other large multinationals) in the country they make the money (hurting Ireland, and other tax havens... But mostly a good thing as France's unilateral decision to tax multinational companies could have lead to a tit-for-tat trade war doing significant damage to the world economy...)

What did hearthstone or South Park, or the NBA do? And yes, China still exists. Still has a two child policy, still has million of unattached men due to decades of discrimination against female babies and fetuses, still importing women to rectify, still treating those non-han Chinese within their 'borders' as second class humans ignoring their human rights, and selling some of their organs?
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#6 Post by flash2015 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:48 pm

The big issue Chaqa is referring to is how China has becoming so powerful that it can force foreign companies to self-censor.

Blizzard/Activision took back prize money from a Hong Kong based Hearthstone gamer and sacked announcers because the gamer made a pro-Hong Kong protestor statement during an award ceremony. China pressured the NBA and the Houston Rockets general manager to make an apology after the Houston Rockets general manager posted a pro-Hong Kong protestor tweet. South Park is now banned in China after a recent episode criticizing China.
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#7 Post by Octavious » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:35 pm

I'm amazed... South Park used to be allowed in China?!?
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#8 Post by orathaic » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:21 pm

Wow, extracting organs from humans is not a big deal, but threatening to withhold money/access to the Chinese Market gives them power?
#firdtworldproblems.

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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#9 Post by TrPrado » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:27 am

Part of it is that they are imposing international restrictions on free speech. It's not any more of an authoritarian power now than it was before, it's just that now that it is affecting more people it becomes more visual to those who pay less attention.
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#10 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:13 am

What does any of this have to do with basketball?

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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#11 Post by orathaic » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:26 am

I might also point out that for at least a decade China has been seen as a lucrative market for big Holywood blockbusters, but they only allow a limited number of foreign films in each year, so they tend to reject anything which has a critical view of China. As a result a certain amount of self-censorship has been prevalent. Superhero movies including scenes set in China (with some having additional scenes just for the Chinese Market). Scenes which will necessarily paint China in a positive light.

This blatant display of anti-Hong Kong sentiment is far less insiduous. China has a clear interest in what protesters are saying about Hong Kong, and foreign companies giving platform to that political messages - messages which are not approved of - will be quickly shutdown, or blocked in China.

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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#12 Post by Octavious » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:18 am

Alas, the storm has caused the England France game to be cancelled (and New Zealand Italy, which is a shame for the Italians but has no impact on anything beyond that).

Hoping that group A isn't decided by the weather....

Remind me, Ora, when it was that Holywood didn't tailor its films to the sensibilities of those who control the purse strings?

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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#13 Post by TrPrado » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:24 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:13 am
What does any of this have to do with basketball?
flash2015 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:48 pm
China pressured the NBA and the Houston Rockets general manager to make an apology after the Houston Rockets general manager posted a pro-Hong Kong protestor tweet.
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#14 Post by orathaic » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:32 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:18 am
Alas, the storm has caused the England France game to be cancelled (and New Zealand Italy, which is a shame for the Italians but has no impact on anything beyond that).

Hoping that group A isn't decided by the weather....

Remind me, Ora, when it was that Holywood didn't tailor its films to the sensibilities of those who control the purse strings?
Yeah, no, I just don't see how this kind of censorship is so different from what was happening with effective censorship of foreign movies...

Are you say in that Holywood makes (for example) movies featuring the US armed forces (like say the Transformer franchise) and this pro-military propoganda is just as bad as other countries making propoganda? (I know the US armed forces provide money and material support for some movies ie access to military hardware, because it is seen as a good recruiting tool).

Is that worse than blatant propoganda (like I imagine you would find in North Korea) because it is done in a more covert way (so the teen target audience is less likely to realise it is propoganda?). Or is it perfectly normal and healthy and nobody should worry about a thing? Aka no censorship so it's freedom!

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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#15 Post by Octavious » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:07 am

I'm certainly not worried. There's a world of difference between a customer influencing the product by saying what they are and are not prepared to pay for, and a product being banned. Anyone can make pro-Trump lolly pops, but no one has a right to expect to sell any at a Democrat rally.
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#16 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:58 pm

I'm both unsurprised and upset that China's censorship of random meaningless things, which is not new in the slightest, is taking attention away from their disregard for personal freedom and their, uh, genocidal tendencies. Yet the pragmatist in me is also glad that this is making people get on the anti-China bandwagon.

This really isn't about China's economic or military power, though. It's about how the rest of the world weighs their own economic and military success above doing the right thing or, if you're less idealistic, not imprisoning, mutilating, and killing millions of people because of the religious sect into which they happened to be born. That is why Blizzard and the NBA still want to do business in China so badly that they'll hurt their business elsewhere to do so instead of using their money as financial leverage and their customer base as political capital to coerce the Chinese government into doing the right thing.

South Park is a dumb show but good for them.
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#17 Post by orathaic » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:50 pm

Octavious wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:07 am
I'm certainly not worried. There's a world of difference between a customer influencing the product by saying what they are and are not prepared to pay for, and a product being banned. Anyone can make pro-Trump lolly pops, but no one has a right to expect to sell any at a Democrat rally.
So 'freedom of speech' *has* come to mean more, but the US constitution specifies freedom from govt. censorship. Therefore a company (say twitter for example) is allowed 'censor' you; or kick you off their platform.

Is the difference between a customer (who buys/doesn't buy the film ticket) and China (who censors, in effect, hundreds of films from entering their market, or allows maybe 100 foreign films each year), is that difference merely scale?

And should countries be forced to allow imports? (which would be pretty problematic, given the First Opium War was about forcing China to allow Western nations import whatever they wanted...)

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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#18 Post by Randomizer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:09 am

Countries have the right to restrict imports and exports. Otherwise illegal drugs could freely enter the US, guns could enter Mexico, and well you get it. It doesn't matter if you think entertainment is harmless because content has ideas and governments don't want their peoples getting the wrong ideas that could lead to their being overthrown.

China, by being the largest marketplace, has more control because companies want to profit from selling there. Especially because unlike India and Third World nations, there is an increasingly richer economy that can buy higher priced goods.
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#19 Post by Octavious » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:19 am

Ora, I can honestly say that I haven't got the foggiest idea what you're getting at. Do I like the way China does things? Not at all. Do I plan on doing anything about this beyond expressing approval when my government promotes the merits of democracy? Not particularly. Am I going to lose any sleep over whether companies selling products to China are toadying up to the Chinese government? No.
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Re: China, the NBA, Hearthstone, and South Park

#20 Post by orathaic » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:38 am

The customer decides not to see your film, (so you self-censor?) is in the same ballpark as the Chinese govt decides not to import your film (they are effectively your customer)...

The fact that China is still a communist state in many ways means from their perspective the State is one big consumer, representing over a million people and their interests.

The issue with 'freedom of speech' being restricted by a state, in the eyes of 'free market' types is seeing China not as a consumer but as a State repressing their people.

The issue here is with Hong Kong, democracy, and using the state's political weight to get what they want. Any state will do this. The US may do it in different ways, like ridiculing people as 'fake news', or otherwise marginalising viewpoints that don't support the common narrative. It is arguably cheaper and more effective to ignore (for example) 9/11 truthers. Once everyone is allowed to speak, the flood of ideas can become too much to distinguish between the good ones and the lunatic fringe... It is infact possible that various US intelligence agencies support flat earthers and UFO-logists as a way to discredit (by association) Real and fair criticism (labelling them all conspiracy theories)... Much smarter than being obvious in your censorship, imho.

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