Diplomacy Academy 7: Failure to communicate

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dancing queen
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Diplomacy Academy 7: Failure to communicate

#1 Post by dancing queen » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:27 pm

https://youtu.be/HFISfvwx4vc

Enjoy! Feedback welcome - lots to talk about in this game, I just focused on negotiations in the video.
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tatertrotts
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Re: Diplomacy Academy 7: Failure to communicate

#2 Post by tatertrotts » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:01 pm

Love these, but I would love to see an example of a mistake you made that actually cost you a game. The downside of you screwing up these negotiations was 13 centers and a British army in Smyrna. Not a ton of risk in that "mea culpa."

Strongly agree on forwarding press btw- it's actually a huge reason I only play gunboat online. Too many players use it too early or for too little gain.
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thisisntme
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Re: Diplomacy Academy 7: Failure to communicate

#3 Post by thisisntme » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:41 pm

I agree. Maybe post about some games where you lost due to press, and explain where you went wrong
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dancing queen
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Re: Diplomacy Academy 7: Failure to communicate

#4 Post by dancing queen » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:56 am

tatertrotts wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:01 pm
Love these, but I would love to see an example of a mistake you made that actually cost you a game. The downside of you screwing up these negotiations was 13 centers and a British army in Smyrna. Not a ton of risk in that "mea culpa."

Strongly agree on forwarding press btw- it's actually a huge reason I only play gunboat online. Too many players use it too early or for too little gain.
Well, a three-way draw may be a fine result, but it aint a solo. :) And one of the things I glossed over (for brevity) was the moment I panicked and realized that FRANCE could stab for a solo, if Italy and I didn't get ducks in a row quickly. Thankfully, France wasn't even thinking about it.

Pinpointing moments where you "lose a game" based on press are hard. In the WDC2016 video, we never see the moment where Doug Moore tells Andrew Goff he's going to Skaggerak, but that's the closest thing I can think of that I've seen. I'll keep my eyes open though.

As for forwarding press, I think you just have to be careful with what you say - if you look closely, I never said I was going to turn on France. I said "pursue other projects" or something like that. If you assume that what you say could be passed on, you can still negotiate effectively.

Claesar
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Re: Diplomacy Academy 7: Failure to communicate

#5 Post by Claesar » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:53 am

tatertrotts wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:01 pm
Love these, but I would love to see an example of a mistake you made that actually cost you a game. The downside of you screwing up these negotiations was 13 centers and a British army in Smyrna. Not a ton of risk in that "mea culpa."
...
Chris already touched on this, but if you look closely at the board you'll see that "a mistake that cost you a game" was this game with a different France. If that player had decided to capitalise on the war between England and Russia, he could've. With a combination of luck and skill, Chris managed to dodge that. Nevertheless, when you end up in a war because your diplomacy failed you've done it wrong. You want to fight on your own terms.
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Octavious
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Re: Diplomacy Academy 7: Failure to communicate

#6 Post by Octavious » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:15 am

The mistake was the assumption that :) equals a joke. In some cases this is true, but it's not universally so by any stretch, and I'm not convinced that it was in this case.

In terms of failure to communicate, I confess I'm struggling a bit to follow your long term plan in this game during your Russia negotiations. Sure, it would be convenient to use Russia to take down Germany quickly, but with an early personality clash with Russia and what seems like a solid working relationship with France, what were the chances of you and Russia maintaining peace after the fall of Berlin? As an outsider looking in it seems rather unlikely, especially considering the death of Germany would inevitably leave you in a position with lots of units conveniently close to less well defended Russian centres.

With that in mind Russia's instincts don't seem so odd. England is a threat, so try to negotiate a division of centres that would give me a better position to defend the north and remove the temptation of swift English wins. England is a threat so turn France against him at all costs.

The big picture as always is important here. Conversations between France and Russia, I suspect, were crucial to forming Russia's game perspective and what he considered to be possible.
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dancing queen
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Re: Diplomacy Academy 7: Failure to communicate

#7 Post by dancing queen » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:43 am

Octavious wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:15 am
In terms of failure to communicate, I confess I'm struggling a bit to follow your long term plan in this game during your Russia negotiations. Sure, it would be convenient to use Russia to take down Germany quickly, but with an early personality clash with Russia and what seems like a solid working relationship with France, what were the chances of you and Russia maintaining peace after the fall of Berlin?

With that in mind Russia's instincts don't seem so odd. England is a threat, so try to negotiate a division of centres that would give me a better position to defend the north and remove the temptation of swift English wins. England is a threat so turn France against him at all costs.

The big picture as always is important here. Conversations between France and Russia, I suspect, were crucial to forming Russia's game perspective and what he considered to be possible.
I agree with you 100% here regarding Russia's options once he's pulled the gun on taking Norway - he's probably looking at a fight with me, and a fight he's going to lose, unless he talks his way out of it.

So some of the failure here is me expecting him to DO that - Any Russia worth his vodka should know he can't win a fight with England in that position, and so should be willing to make concessions / sweet talk to England while working hard to change the other dynamic. Russia and I had a perfectly cordial 1901, or I wouldn't have pitched the hyper-aggressive attack. It was after that things went sideways.

As for "what he does if he just plays ball" - that's a much deeper question that deserves a lot more ink than I have time for right now. But I suggest you look at Nicolas Sahuguet's play in the 2017 WDC Top Table (moves and analysis by Mario Huys up at the Diplomatic Pouch now) for an example of how you bide your time and wait for your chance to "get back in the game" Briefly - give me what I want so I can choose to go get entangled in another fight, giving Russia the chance LATER to come back and fight in the north.

Me? Hard to know exactly what I'd've done if he'd gone south with that fleet in Spring 02, but I certainly would have supported him into Kiel. France is all armies, and a very tempting target.
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