Idiots Guide to Salesmanship

[VillageIdiot]

One of the tougher skills to master is that of being a good salesman in the game. Not every gain in a game comes out of strength or deceit, a good player can get his way just be striking a good quality deal. However for many players however this approach doesn't even cross their mind and for others it's grossly misused.

Here's a few tips i've discovered over the years that have helped me.

1) Empathize with the other player and offer win-win suggestions
It seems simple but far too often I've come across players pitching things to me that really only addressed their needs which not only didn't get very far with me but it actually soured me on the player more then if we hadn't spoken to begin with. I personally get highly turned off when players start negotiating for centers before the first move is even made. Granted some players are pretty slick when it comes to this and can do very well with it, but they're just used car salesmen who ultimately take advantage of a player. This gets you ahead sure but it's not going to give you repeat business with that player, and when playing a game like this your diplomatic credibility is very valuable. Just like in everyday life, if you walk away from a deal feeling good about it you're more likely to want to deal with that person again. Successfully pitching deals that legitimately provide that player benefit will make future deals a lot smoother.

2) A sales pitch never asked is already lost
Now i know this might sounds a bit contradictory to point one, but hear me out. It's not uncommon for players never to approach somebody about something because they already assume they know the outcome of the conversation. They think things like "why would Turkey ever want to stab Russia, they have a perfect alliance and are going to win this!". And that may even be true, but hey - it never hurts to ask. For all you know there may be fighting going on behind the scenes, or perhaps one of them is just looking for some excitement, or maybe somebody is more ambitious then logical and all they need is a feeling of another ally option elsewhere to give them that nudge. There's been many times I've been able to convince a player to make highly unconventional moves such as leaving themselves highly vulnerable to me, agree to add me into a draw i have no right being in, telling me things they probably shouldn't be telling me, or even ceding over centers to me because i was able to paint a picture of why it strategically had value to do so. There's a high percentage of players who never would have gone for that, but you won't know until you ask if he may end up being in that low percent. Of course this needs some delicate pitching if you want to avoid the potential for a sour reaction as i mentioned in the previous paragraph.

3) Continually look for opportunities.
This is one of those "work smarter, not harder type things". Let everybody else kill themselves spending years building armies large enough to fight back against the evil super alliance while you accomplish the same goal in half the time by recruiting one of the bad guys into an even better alliance with you and somebody else that's a bit more appealing to him since he gets to be the biggest country in this new alliance. Convince your neighbour that if you could get one more fleet build this year it would make a huge difference in fighting your mutual enemy and that right now the only way do that is if you take over his center this turn since it's the best way to mutual success and while i could stab then right now to take it you'd much rather get your blessing and a promise to make it up. Or pitch to the guy that just stabbed you that your sure he'd eventually defeat you but if he were to quickly realign with you right now nobody would see it coming and you could both make out like bandits this year with a super blindside on somebody else. Everybody see's the typical path but the great players seek out the less obvious one's. Always seek out and try to work absolutely every angle you can.

4) Establish a Deal Making Relationship.
Try to seek out as strong of relationships as you can and make it known that you are the type of person who's very interested in trying to talk through and improve upon any deals out there possibly in play. Do your best to anticipate other deals and pro-actively improve upon them when possible. For example, if it's obvious your alliance is about to crumble because one of your centers is far too good not to stab for you then consider offering the center to your ally to keep them on your side if it means keeping yourself in a stronger position long term and provides you with useful goodwill you can cash in on later. If a deal doesn't go through as hoped, do a retrospective after the fact as to how your deal would have been more beneficial to them. Be known as the best deal maker in the game.

5) Negotiate Multiple Deals Concurrently.
A good diplomacy player should be talking to everybody on the board and if there's multiple possible avenues to take, entertain them all and see where it goes. Just because Option A looks like the obvious best option, a lot can happen in the span of a round and you never know if in the midst of talking either Option B (or C or D) starts to look a lot more appealing or something unexpected develops to start to sour Option A. Keep your options as wide open as possible and then make your decision at the end of the round based on which looks the most appealing. Again, there's a delicacy here to handle this approach so you're entertaining multiple deals but not necessarily making a bunch of deals that require you to break promises. Defer commitments when you can and have diplomatic ways to get out of deals when needed without necessarily burning a bridge - you need to maintain your diplomatic credibility.

6) Seek Unambiguous Commitment.
The flip side of this one is it's good to get others to lock in commitments when possible to the point it's awkward for them to break deals without causing damage to their diplomatic credibility. Make sure they're clear in what they're saying, far too many times I've encountered players attempt to weasel out of agreements based on semantics of how they worded their agreement. "Sounds good" is not the same as "I agree to this deal", so if they're vague then clarify what's being said. If a deals broken then ensure it's clear that it was. That said don't necessarily lose your mind if they do (you may need them later) but don't completely let it slide either - I'm disappointed, i can possibly understand why you felt the need to break a deal in your position, it's noted. The other players may cheer you being betrayed but they probably will think twice about allowing themselves to ever be vulnerable around the betrayer as well and that can be useful.

The salesman skill is a very valuable tool to have in your diplomacy toolbox and mastering it will absolutely elevate your game.

[Durga]

Good stuff! The flip side of this is whenever someone brings a deal forward that I think is just ridiculously not beneficial to them I start getting suspicious. Don't just throw out deals for the sake of doing so, but carefully think about whether it's realistic that you'd follow through with it - or if your goal is to trick someone, think about if its something realistic enough that they'd fall for it. There are too many times when people try to offer me something and my response is "why the hell would you?"

[Jamiet99uk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKzMd328bMw

[VillageIdiot]

Finally some dialog! Was starting to think i was writing these for myself.

[Durga]

No way! Keep them coming, this is great :)

[CommanderByron]

Don’t just look at the comments look at the views. These are hot topics :) good work mate.

[jmo1121109]

Finally some dialog! Was starting to think i was writing these for myself.

Even if you aren't getting replies, these are amazing and slowly being included in the site resources on how to play the game. They are perfect for people newer to the game or even longer term members who need some help bumping up their play. Please continue with them!

And if you ever need any type of help from the site team for any of these posts please don't hesitate to ask.

[dancing queen]

This is great advice, and well presented for the newer player. #s 3 and 5 are too often overlooked.

I'd add "Never stop looking for a deal" to the list - Down to 2 centers? Someone wants those centers. If someone else wants those centers too, then you have leverage for negotiation. Are you adjacent to any centers that someone else wants? Can you weasel your way to the stalemate line and threaten to throw the solo if you aren't included in the draw? What have you got to lose if you fail?

I also like the bit about not flipping the board when a deal gets broken. Its Diplomacy, deals are going to get broken - you should be breaking deals when it is to your advantage! - But that doesn't mean the end of the relationship, it just means ... negotiations have happened by other means.

In F2F games between players who've a long history of playing together its very common for everything said in a negotiation to be a lie, and both players know it, and they move their pieces accordingly, and come back to the next negotiation with a smile!

[dancing queen]

Good stuff! The flip side of this is whenever someone brings a deal forward that I think is just ridiculously not beneficial to them I start getting suspicious. Don't just throw out deals for the sake of doing so, but carefully think about whether it's realistic that you'd follow through with it - or if your goal is to trick someone, think about if its something realistic enough that they'd fall for it. There are too many times when people try to offer me something and my response is "why the hell would you?"

This is the most common mistake I see in negotiations online - offering a deal that is too unbalanced. I always think "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If I can't construct a plausible reason WHY you would go through with what you are offering, and see the benefit for you, then there is no way I'm putting my units at risk by agreeing to your plan. I don't like agreeing to such plans even as a ruse - though sometimes you have to do that.

I think in f2f play its easier to get a read on a player who is just crazy and likes to do nutty things. Yann Clouet is one of those - he was down for anything, it didn't matter whose units went where as long as it was fun.

On the flip side, sometimes a player doesn't _know_ what is good for them, and will make suggestions that seem ridiculous because they don't understand the implications of the move.

[Octavious]

I wonder how many diplomacy players have some experience in sales. I did some door to door charity stuff during my university years, and became pretty good at it. Remarkably different from Jamie's link. I wonder if that kind of thing every really happened...

[VillageIdiot]

This is the most common mistake I see in negotiations online - offering a deal that is too unbalanced. I always think "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If I can't construct a plausible reason WHY you would go through with what you are offering, and see the benefit for you, then there is no way I'm putting my units at risk by agreeing to your plan. I don't like agreeing to such plans even as a ruse - though sometimes you have to do that.

I may on occasion "agree" to a preposterous plan, just for the sake of the benefit of having a player forecast their moves. The key in your type of example is to push back and make them over sell you on their plan to the point they really beleive they've got you on their hook. If you resist enough and eventually give in then they probably will go through with their 'trap' or whatever they are up to which chances are you can predict and work towards your advantage. Case-by-case basis though, if it's doesn't seem believable enough or the upside of the play isn't valuable enough then agreed - refuse and keep the relationship credible.

I wonder how many diplomacy players have some experience in sales. I did some door to door charity stuff during my university years, and became pretty good at it. Remarkably different from Jamie's link. I wonder if that kind of thing every really happened...

Good question. Interesting enough i've seen a few successful lawyers in our midst, Conq and StarMonkey both came from that world.

I had a job that required sales skills when i first graduated university way back when. I'd taken a position as a junior Recruiter where they basically wanted me to headhunt people. They threw me some Yellow Pages (dating myself) and told me to start cold calling banks to try to ask for their Loan Officers to try to see if they wanted to leave. I felt like a total douchebag calling people at their work and trying to sell them on walking away and ended up getting some pretty unfriendly responses. Hated that job when i first started.

It certainly taught me about audacity though, and over time I learned better approaches so i wasn't so off-putting. Rather then "sell" opportunities I would present these great openings and passively ask for their help in finding people and then if they like what they hear for themselves then let them be the ones to suggest it. I'd build personal relationships with people and keep things light.

I'm far removed from that world nowadays but the skills learned stayed with me. I don't fear a little boldness now and then but I'm conscious to add softness on top of the boldness when possible. I steer players towards ideas but let them be the ones to "form" and "pitch" the plan because i know it's more likely they'll fully adopt and follow through on it if it's theres. I invest a lot of time in building solid relationships and i keep a very thick skin when it comes to nothing personal/just business mentality. It's served me pretty well.