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How does Austria work with Italy, incase this works? Or more to the point, how does Italy work with Austria, rather than just trying to sandwich Austria? Is Austria giving away too much? What can they do to present a strong enough front that Italy goes west?

As I'm not sure we're on the same page, let me start by how I see the Lepanto-opening:

Italy moves to Eastern Mediterranean in 1902 and then tries to obtain Smyrna. Often a convoy to Syria is used. This takes forever and requires some good guesses on the Italian part. Meanwhile, Austria has taken Bulgaria and tries to help. Or stab Italy, which they can't defend against.


I presume your question implies that Italy eventually gets Smyrna, Constantinople and Ankara. They are then faced with the choice of stabbing Austria, or sailing west.

There are three things that Austria should (have) do(ne) to make sure it's sailing west.

1) Make sure Italy has a clear goal. In an alliance, it's also your responsibility to make sure your ally has something to look forward to. You must be worth more alive than dead.
What does Italy want? Make sure they can get it by working together with you. For instance, ask for support into Sevastopol in exchange for them getting Greece. This takes some tension out of the border (if they take it with a fleet). Many other options are possible.

2) Make sure it makes sense for Italy to sail west. If there's a wall of French defence standing there already, it doesn't make sense. Either have France attack Italy, or try to set France up to be vulnerable in Iberia. The opportunity must be better on the other side.

3) In relation to #2, make sure Italy has many fleets. Armies are more suited for stabbing you. Fleets are more suited for attacking France. Italy should therefore have many fleets. You should've discussed this many turns ago.


I'll try to find some examples.

In this Gunboat http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=286479, Italy was under attack from the west enough to desire fleets. Of course this is Gunboat so Austria didn't have enough influence on that, but look how grouped the Austrian units are when Italy needs to make the decision in 1905. That does not look appealing. Going west shows more potential.

Here is a Full Press game where Italy builds only fleets at the request of Austria: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=195557. As you can see, there's never a really good stab opportunity for Italy on Austria. This would've been a great 3-way draw if it wasn't for that last year.


I thought I'd have more examples, but I don't play FP that much and I don't like the regular Lepanto as Italy.

This is for Gunboat, not press, but IMO it is much better for both Italy and Austria to work together and do some form of a Lepanto (unlike Claesar, a Lepanto to me is just an A/I alliance, not strictly the classic Lepanto opening).

For Italy:

Italy doing a convoy to Tunis is usually normal, and then building fleets and trying to help vs. Turkey.

Three things that can help:
1. Venice -> Piedmont - this helps a lot in the current Gunboat meta, as it helps Germany and England keep France pre-occupied. Often you don't even go for Marseilles, but having the option gives you a lot of flexibility and helps gimp France long-term (which is good for you, as you want stronger E/G to fight Russia and also a strong G to keep Austria from ever getting to critical-mass of armies)
2. Do not over-commit to the convoy right away. Spend 1902 convoying your army back to Apulia and moving Naples to Tyrrhenian. Often you can just chill for a turn or two and see how the east develops. Often times you will have an opportunity for a Wintergreen or even an I/T.
3. Send your Venice army north to help take Warsaw. This has some risk, but an experienced Austria player will recognize this and be glad for the help. Just make sure it doesn't go south later on.

Here's a few interesting A/I games I finished recently (from Austria perspective)
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

I only just now realized Valis and I random'd into I/A in both those games... huh

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 2:36 pm

I only just now realized Valis and I random'd into I/A in both those games... huh

...and I was Turkey in both.

RoganJosh wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 3:46 pm

Chaqa wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 2:36 pm

I only just now realized Valis and I random'd into I/A in both those games... huh

...and I was Turkey in both.

Everyone was the same in both except Wusti and bb :D

Claesar wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 11:58 am

I thought I'd have more examples, but I don't play FP that much and I don't like the regular Lepanto as Italy.

the Key Lepanto, otoh, is a great way to either a) get a massive jump on the Balkans or b) drive R/T into an unbreakable alliance

Sometimes you get c)both. :/

dancing queen wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 5:45 pm

Claesar wrote: ↑

Tue May 12, 2020 11:58 am

I thought I'd have more examples, but I don't play FP that much and I don't like the regular Lepanto as Italy.

the Key Lepanto, otoh, is a great way to either a) get a massive jump on the Balkans or b) drive R/T into an unbreakable alliance

Sometimes you get c)both. :/

I definitely don't like the original Key Lepanto. There are better variants.

Hmm. Thank you each. Sounds pretty standard. Don't suck. :)