Convoy support hold

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ziran
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Convoy support hold

#1 Post by ziran » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:50 pm

if an army is ordered to move via convoy and a fleet doesn't issue the convoy order, can other units still support the moving army to hold?
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David E. Cohen
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Re: Convoy support hold

#2 Post by David E. Cohen » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:58 pm

I do not know how the software on this site adjudicates it, but by the rules, in this case the army most definitely may NOT be supported to hold.

ziran
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Re: Convoy support hold

#3 Post by ziran » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:30 am

i was basing my assumption on text such as this: "If a convoy order fails and the convoyed piece could not ordinarily move there without the convoy, the convoyed army unit holds." emphasis mine.
-https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Diplomacy/Rules#Convoy

i believe i've seen similar text elsewhere.

CptMike
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Re: Convoy support hold

#4 Post by CptMike » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:35 am

ziran wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:50 pm
if an army is ordered to move via convoy and a fleet doesn't issue the convoy order, can other units still support the moving army to hold?
They can't. This is not linked to the fact it is convoyed or not.
It is linked to the fact the unit was ordered to move and not ordered to hold.

Assume that orders are :
* Bur > Mun
* Ruh S Bur

Whatever happens, the second order is 'void' because Bur was not ordered to hold.

David E. Cohen
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Re: Convoy support hold

#5 Post by David E. Cohen » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:20 pm

Whether the fleet was actually ordered to convoy is immaterial. If, looking at the board prior to adjudication, it would have been possible for an army to move to the province it was orered to move to, then the army has been ordered to make a legal move, and cannot be supported to hold. Conversely, if a if, looking at the board prior to adjudication, if it would not be possible for an army to move to the province to which it was ordered, then the order is illegal and must be adjudicated as an order to hold and therefore may be supported to hold.

A_Tin_Can
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Re: Convoy support hold

#6 Post by A_Tin_Can » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:52 pm

I think that’s a very unusual interpretation.

I think the usual interpretation is that any move order - legal or otherwise- means that you may not be supported to hold.

David E. Cohen
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Re: Convoy support hold

#7 Post by David E. Cohen » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:09 am

I am afraid that is the usual interpretation, and if it wasn't, all you'd have to do to refuse support, which the rules explicitly say you can't do, would be to order something nonsensical like F Por-Mos.

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