Rules Clarification

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Standard_Monarch_4
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Rules Clarification

#1 Post by Standard_Monarch_4 » Sun May 10, 2020 2:10 am

Hi all,

Two units can't swap places - does this include if one has more support than another?
Eg.
Austria: A Vie-Gal, A Bud S A Vie-Gal
Russia: A Gal-Vie
Does anything move?
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Wintogreen
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Re: Rules Clarification

#2 Post by Wintogreen » Sun May 10, 2020 2:29 am

If this happens, and the support from bud is not cut, then vienna moves to galicia and galicia is displaced. In addition, gal cannot retreat to vienna, bc the army came from vienna.
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Tugster
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Re: Rules Clarification

#3 Post by Tugster » Sun May 10, 2020 5:33 am

there is a way that two armies can actually change places If one is convoyed and the other marches directly on land.

Italy:

Venice - Trieste ( via convoy)
Fleet Adriatic convoys Venice to Trieste

Austria:

Trieste - Venice (via land)

Trieste and Venice then swap positions, in this case, assuming no other units involved. It's quite rare, but I have seen it and done it.
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Claesar
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Re: Rules Clarification

#4 Post by Claesar » Sun May 10, 2020 8:57 am

Wintogreen wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 2:29 am
If this happens, and the support from bud is not cut, then vienna moves to galicia and galicia is displaced. In addition, gal cannot retreat to vienna, bc the army came from vienna.
This is only correct if the units in Vienna and Galicia are owned by different people. Otherwise they still bounce.

I think you correctly understood what the OP meant though.
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Rekma
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Re: Rules Clarification

#5 Post by Rekma » Wed May 13, 2020 6:08 pm

Thanks - what if Austria does as well Trieste - Vie

Is this blocked because of the Russian attack or not?

Rekma
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Re: Rules Clarification

#6 Post by Rekma » Wed May 13, 2020 6:27 pm

Sorry for the ambiguity, my question is refering to the first example of the thread (the one without convoy)

jay65536
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Re: Rules Clarification

#7 Post by jay65536 » Wed May 13, 2020 6:49 pm

Rekma wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:08 pm
Thanks - what if Austria does as well Trieste - Vie

Is this blocked because of the Russian attack or not?
No. There is a rule that says that a dislodged unit can have no effect on the space that the dislodging unit came from. Since the Austrian attack came from Vienna and dislodged the Russian army, the Russian order to Vienna can't bounce anything ordered to Vienna.

Rekma
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Re: Rules Clarification

#8 Post by Rekma » Wed May 13, 2020 7:32 pm

Ok great all clear!

Rekma
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Re: Rules Clarification

#9 Post by Rekma » Mon May 18, 2020 5:50 am

Dear all - I recently had another question about the rules and the website, on the classic map.

I had a fleet in Mid-Atlantic-Ocean and one in Portugal.

My orders would have been as follows:

Por - Spain (south coast)
MAO s Por - Spain (south coast)

The issue though was that the website was not providing Spain south coast as one of the possibilities for the support, only Spain (no mention of coast). The way the arrows were then shown on the map, was as if the support was not valid (grey arrow). Any explanation to this? Would the order have been validates, or does it require a fix to the game engine? Thanks!
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Squigs44
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Re: Rules Clarification

#10 Post by Squigs44 » Mon May 18, 2020 6:30 am

Rekma wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:50 am
Dear all - I recently had another question about the rules and the website, on the classic map.

I had a fleet in Mid-Atlantic-Ocean and one in Portugal.

My orders would have been as follows:

Por - Spain (south coast)
MAO s Por - Spain (south coast)

The issue though was that the website was not providing Spain south coast as one of the possibilities for the support, only Spain (no mention of coast). The way the arrows were then shown on the map, was as if the support was not valid (grey arrow). Any explanation to this? Would the order have been validates, or does it require a fix to the game engine? Thanks!
Hello,

Good question. The orders you entered are both valid. When entering moves, you must specify a coast, but when entering supports, you do not need to specify a coast. The game engine will adjudicate this correctly.

Unfortunately, the way our arrows are generated on the map, it makes if difficult to draw the arrows so that they match up correctly, and a gray arrow shows up instead. This is a known issue and might be fixed in the future, but for now it will occur with any territories that have multiple coasts. Since this is only a graphical issue and not a mechanical error, it is lower on our priorities (it would also take a large overhaul of our game engine).
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jay65536
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Re: Rules Clarification

#11 Post by jay65536 » Mon May 18, 2020 5:54 pm

Squigs44 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 6:30 am
When entering moves, you must specify a coast, but when entering supports, you do not need to specify a coast.
You should know that this ruling is considered controversial, just in case you ever play on another site or in a FtF house game with a different ruling. I have gotten in debates over this in the past. I see both sides of the issue and I personally agree with the above quoted ruling, but it can be different elsewhere.

Squigs44
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Re: Rules Clarification

#12 Post by Squigs44 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:08 pm

jay65536 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:54 pm
Squigs44 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 6:30 am
When entering moves, you must specify a coast, but when entering supports, you do not need to specify a coast.
You should know that this ruling is considered controversial, just in case you ever play on another site or in a FtF house game with a different ruling. I have gotten in debates over this in the past. I see both sides of the issue and I personally agree with the above quoted ruling, but it can be different elsewhere.
This is a good point. The DATC covers this in decision 4.B.4 found here. My answer applies to webdiplomacy, but may not apply to other places depending on their DATC decisions.

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