AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

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goldfinger0303
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#61 Post by goldfinger0303 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:11 am

jmo1121109 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:57 pm
Squigs44 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:31 pm
goldfinger0303 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:12 pm
Shouldn't that game have not been drawn based on the AI rules?
Yes it should not have drawn. We obviously are having issues with certain cases where the bots aren't voting how we want them to. I'll reset their obedience levels to 100%...
Currently it's only the top bot that's checked. In this game that was Austria, Austria didn't gain centers in 4 turns, so the game ended.
To prevent situations like this from happening, is it possible to change it so that instead of after every phase, the bot only checks every spring? Is that something feasible, and do you think it would lead to a better experience?
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Squigs44
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#62 Post by Squigs44 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:13 am

goldfinger0303 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:11 am
jmo1121109 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:57 pm
Squigs44 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:31 pm


Yes it should not have drawn. We obviously are having issues with certain cases where the bots aren't voting how we want them to. I'll reset their obedience levels to 100%...
Currently it's only the top bot that's checked. In this game that was Austria, Austria didn't gain centers in 4 turns, so the game ended.
To prevent situations like this from happening, is it possible to change it so that instead of after every phase, the bot only checks every spring? Is that something feasible, and do you think it would lead to a better experience?
Well my 2 cents is that whether a bot votes draw or not shouldn't be an issue. A game can only draw if the player votes draw, so there aren't any unwanted or unenjoyable draws. A smart player will use this tool to learn how to play better in all aspects of their game, including in unfavorable spots. Thus, they shouldn't vote draw unless there is a true stalemate.

Is it feasible to make this change? Not as feasible as you would think...
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Claesar
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#63 Post by Claesar » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:26 am

MajorMitchell wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:42 am
...
I had expected that the new AI bot players would learn/adapt as they played more games.
...
Again, no. When jmo said the bots are not currently learning, he meant it.
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diplomat61
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#64 Post by diplomat61 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:36 pm

I have played a couple of games, intending to check out some openings.

What I found frustrating is that "cancel" only works in the first four turns. I know that the bots are not learning, so what is the point of the turn limit?
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jmo1121109
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#65 Post by jmo1121109 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:14 pm

If you click the ? help button next to the voting, or read my into post here, you'll see that cancel and draw stop working after the first 4 turns if a bot is winning and has gained centers in the last 4 turns. This is to prevent people from cancelling a game when they're getting their ass kicked by the bots as we need the data from the bots performance for possible future retrainings, for tournaments, and for putting an eventual ranking on your profile showing how good you do against bots.
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diplomat61
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#66 Post by diplomat61 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:45 pm

jmo1121109 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:14 pm
This is to prevent people from cancelling a game when they're getting their ass kicked by the bots as we need the data from the bots performance for possible future retrainings, for tournaments, and for putting an eventual ranking on your profile showing how good you do against bots.
Thanks for the explanation.
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Hamilton Brian
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#67 Post by Hamilton Brian » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:06 pm

6 bots currently have it out for me. How sentient of them!

CptMike
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#68 Post by CptMike » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:34 am

That must have been a hard work.
Thank the whole Team very much for this!
We were many to wait for the bots.

Octavious
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#69 Post by Octavious » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:34 am

diplomat61 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:45 pm
jmo1121109 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:14 pm
This is to prevent people from cancelling a game when they're getting their ass kicked by the bots as we need the data from the bots performance for possible future retrainings, for tournaments, and for putting an eventual ranking on your profile showing how good you do against bots.
Thanks for the explanation.
It's a piss poor explanation, though. You wish to force people to continue playing a game they're not enjoying against non human opponents (who I assume are incapable of enjoying a game) for the sake of a data gathering exercise? So for a chance of maybe improving the experience of members in the future you will definitely make them miserable in the present? That's sheer lunacy.
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BobMcBob
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#70 Post by BobMcBob » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:59 am

Octavious wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:34 am
diplomat61 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:45 pm
jmo1121109 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:14 pm
This is to prevent people from cancelling a game when they're getting their ass kicked by the bots as we need the data from the bots performance for possible future retrainings, for tournaments, and for putting an eventual ranking on your profile showing how good you do against bots.
Thanks for the explanation.
It's a piss poor explanation, though. You wish to force people to continue playing a game they're not enjoying against non human opponents (who I assume are incapable of enjoying a game) for the sake of a data gathering exercise? So for a chance of maybe improving the experience of members in the future you will definitely make them miserable in the present? That's sheer lunacy.
Also, if you're playing a game against the bots, half the time you'll be able to tell whether or not you're going to be miserably crushed within the first two years and can easily cancel. So the data won't be incredibly reliable anyway.
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teccles
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#71 Post by teccles » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:09 am

Perhaps there could be a concede option in 1-human games?
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yuuki
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#73 Post by yuuki » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:24 am

convoy the bots to death

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#74 Post by yuuki » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:28 am

Has anybody had a bot game in which Italy attacks Austria early? Just curious as the bots seem to love the Austria Italy alliance so far from what I have seen.

Rylanzor
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#75 Post by Rylanzor » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:33 am

yuuki wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:28 am
Has anybody had a bot game in which Italy attacks Austria early? Just curious as the bots seem to love the Austria Italy alliance so far from what I have seen.
Jup: https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

Claesar
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#76 Post by Claesar » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:44 am


Rylanzor
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#77 Post by Rylanzor » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:17 am

Although my Italy was a bit better afterwards

Do the points the bots have indicate how good they are?

diplomat61
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#78 Post by diplomat61 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:24 am

Rylanzor wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:17 am
Do the points the bots have indicate how good they are?
I wondered about that.

If all bots are equal perhaps it is an indication of hard a particular country is to play.

diplomat61
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#79 Post by diplomat61 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:29 am

Octavious wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:34 am
It's a piss poor explanation, though. You wish to force people to continue playing a game they're not enjoying against non human opponents (who I assume are incapable of enjoying a game) for the sake of a data gathering exercise? So for a chance of maybe improving the experience of members in the future you will definitely make them miserable in the present? That's sheer lunacy.
Description of the explanation aside, I agree.

Is there an impact on the server of leaving games waiting for 4x3 days to time out?

Alternatively, could you resign your command in favour of a bot and leave them to slug it out?

Claesar
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#80 Post by Claesar » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:34 am

Rylanzor wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:17 am
Do the points the bots have indicate how good they are?
We should look at their GR next month to see how good they are.
diplomat61 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:24 am
...

If all bots are equal perhaps it is an indication of hard a particular country is to play.
The bots are distributed randomly, so no. They play all the countries.

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