Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

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rdrivera2005
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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2001 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:42 pm

bozotheclown wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:45 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:58 pm
thamrick wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:30 pm
It really just feels like rdr is being set up here. I don't understand why he's the runaway lynch candidate right now.
Finally someone start to see what is happening. Scumteam played as a block his game and they are just going for an all in. They are all on me and need just one town voting for me to win, it's obvious. Xorxes, Bozo and Ezio, they are a team.
Also, I find it doubtful that rdrivera would really believe that the "Scumteam played as a block". I have never seen this from a scum team before, and I doubt rdrivera has either.
I really believe scumteam worked as block, and it almost worked. The fact it didn't happen before doesn't mean it won't happen, this is a flawed argument. You seems to believe scum counterclaimed another scum, does this ever happened before?

And I see what you are doing. You was pretty sure about Tham yesterday but it didn't work, now you are trying to buddy him and get him to lynch me with you.

I will try to read you both again, like I said yesterday I don't want to be the one that lose the game for town, but Tham play now on Mylo/lylo seems a lot more towny then yours.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2002 Post by bozotheclown » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:59 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:42 pm
bozotheclown wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:45 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:58 pm


Finally someone start to see what is happening. Scumteam played as a block his game and they are just going for an all in. They are all on me and need just one town voting for me to win, it's obvious. Xorxes, Bozo and Ezio, they are a team.
Also, I find it doubtful that rdrivera would really believe that the "Scumteam played as a block". I have never seen this from a scum team before, and I doubt rdrivera has either.
I really believe scumteam worked as block, and it almost worked. The fact it didn't happen before doesn't mean it won't happen, this is a flawed argument. You seems to believe scum counterclaimed another scum, does this ever happened before?

And I see what you are doing. You was pretty sure about Tham yesterday but it didn't work, now you are trying to buddy him and get him to lynch me with you.

I will try to read you both again, like I said yesterday I don't want to be the one that lose the game for town, but Tham play now on Mylo/lylo seems a lot more towny then yours.
I was not at all sure about thamrick D6, and I do not think anything I said would indicate that, but I had to pick someone.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2003 Post by rdrivera2005 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:49 pm

@Bozo - I confess your play on the last days gave me a bad feeling I could be wrong. But neither you or I can find something solid to vote Tham.
The scum block voting together is something that is pure WIFOM at this point, I know Ezio and Xorxes were doing this, Maniac and Brain didn't vote. The fact I was almost lynched D4 is what make me believe it's possible.
Anyway, have to work now, hope to have some time to read later at night.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2004 Post by bozotheclown » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:32 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:49 pm
@Bozo - I confess your play on the last days gave me a bad feeling I could be wrong. But neither you or I can find something solid to vote Tham.
The scum block voting together is something that is pure WIFOM at this point, I know Ezio and Xorxes were doing this, Maniac and Brain didn't vote. The fact I was almost lynched D4 is what make me believe it's possible.
Anyway, have to work now, hope to have some time to read later at night.

When I had to leave D4, dargorygel was also voting for you, xorxes only had two votes, and I did not know at that time if xorxes was scum. You have scum read me for leaving with my vote on you, but I stated early that I would not be able to be online at EOD, and I announced when I was leaving for the day. I was giving you credit for being more willing than Ezio to switch your vote to xorxes, but when considering that you might be scum with Ezio and xorxes, I realized that there was no reason for you not to be willing to switch your vote to xorxes. By you and Ezio claiming the same nametag and both bussing xorxes, you would have almost guaranteed that the next two lynches would be scum, but set up the one mislynch you needed to win the game.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2005 Post by bo_sox48 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:16 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:49 pm
The fact I was almost lynched D4 is what make me believe it's possible.
Anyway, have to work now, hope to have some time to read later at night.
How did you get that out of D4?

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2006 Post by rdrivera2005 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:40 am

bo_sox48 wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:16 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:49 pm
The fact I was almost lynched D4 is what make me believe it's possible.
Anyway, have to work now, hope to have some time to read later at night.
How did you get that out of D4?
I didn´t understand your question Bo.

I think D4 is key because scum tryed to win the game that day. The most logical explanation for what happened is they think you were Oracle, they went to kidnap you, hoping to keep Fox with the DD name tag and they just need one town to vote for another town to win the game, not really hard. But it didn´t work, Durga was oracle, Fox was cleared and you get DD. So, I think they either have a plan B to counterclaim (and this is why I suspect Bozo, he started the mass peek and claim thing and also voted for me without any hesitation and was the one that seems to have more understanding on the tags) or Ezio decide to give it a try considering his plan failed and Xorxes is the most likely lynch. Either way, I can´t see why he will do that if Tham is the other scum, as he is widely townread at that point. As I know I am town it wasn´t also scum x scum, but I can´t also see a logical reason for him to counterclaim another scum, if Ezio want town credit he could have bussed Xorxes or the other scum with a lot less risk, but he didn´t bussed Xorxes in any moment.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2007 Post by thamrick » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:16 am

With brainbomb, xorxes, and ezio all scum, I'd consider there to be some pretty good mafia minds in the mafia QT. Why was Vecna killed? He was an outed useless PR. No doc to protect him. He would have been easy to kill at any point down the road. Why would they waste a NK on him when there was still a cop? Even if you assume they had a copread on Snowy and were planning on shooting him immediately with the Illusionist gun, why not go ahead and take another chance on NK'ing a secondary copread?

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2008 Post by thamrick » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:31 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:56 am
If yavuzovic's cop claim is real, I can see the exchange between brainbomb and thamrick being fake.
@Bozo - what did you find fake about the exchange between me and brainbomb?

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2009 Post by thamrick » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:28 am

I just have a hard time justifying that scum rdr with less than 1 hour til EoD would post his "reread" post and say that there was nothing scummy about me. That literally would back him into a corner where if he voted me, he'd look incredibly bad. At that point, it was:

rdr (1): Pouncy, bo
bozo (2): tham, rdr
tham (1): bozo

rdr would know that bozo would move off of me to save himself. If rdr had started to express doubt about me, he could have moved off of bozo and onto me and probably kept bozo on my wagon. He would have known that I could have still moved onto his wagon to tie the vote, but then I look worse, and he could convince bozo to vote me with him today.

On the other hand, rdr's last post before EoD didn't seem like he was worried at all about me claiming a victory by jumping onto his wagon at the last second, which could mean he knew I am town and there was no risk.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2010 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:39 am

thamrick wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:16 am
With brainbomb, xorxes, and ezio all scum, I'd consider there to be some pretty good mafia minds in the mafia QT. Why was Vecna killed? He was an outed useless PR. No doc to protect him. He would have been easy to kill at any point down the road. Why would they waste a NK on him when there was still a cop? Even if you assume they had a copread on Snowy and were planning on shooting him immediately with the Illusionist gun, why not go ahead and take another chance on NK'ing a secondary copread?
I don't understand why they did not NK yavuzovic, he implied he was the cop N1 and that he was going to scan brainbomb.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2011 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:01 am

thamrick wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:31 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:56 am
If yavuzovic's cop claim is real, I can see the exchange between brainbomb and thamrick being fake.
@Bozo - what did you find fake about the exchange between me and brainbomb?
brainbomb reacted strongly to you voting for him, and said something about it being personal. That was before yavuzovic's cop scan claim, so I thought it seemed odd that brainbomb would react like that to a vote. I thought you might be bussing him and his overreaction was an attempt to make you look like town.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2012 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:08 am

thamrick wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:28 am
I just have a hard time justifying that scum rdr with less than 1 hour til EoD would post his "reread" post and say that there was nothing scummy about me. That literally would back him into a corner where if he voted me, he'd look incredibly bad. At that point, it was:

rdr (1): Pouncy, bo
bozo (2): tham, rdr
tham (1): bozo

rdr would know that bozo would move off of me to save himself. If rdr had started to express doubt about me, he could have moved off of bozo and onto me and probably kept bozo on my wagon. He would have known that I could have still moved onto his wagon to tie the vote, but then I look worse, and he could convince bozo to vote me with him today.

On the other hand, rdr's last post before EoD didn't seem like he was worried at all about me claiming a victory by jumping onto his wagon at the last second, which could mean he knew I am town and there was no risk.
I find it unlikely that rdrivera could not find some reason to suspect you might be scum. I think he did not want to take the risk of voting for you and having you switch your vote to him, and he figured his best chance was to NK Pouncy and get you to vote with him D7.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2013 Post by rdrivera2005 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:29 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:08 am
thamrick wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:28 am
I just have a hard time justifying that scum rdr with less than 1 hour til EoD would post his "reread" post and say that there was nothing scummy about me. That literally would back him into a corner where if he voted me, he'd look incredibly bad. At that point, it was:

rdr (1): Pouncy, bo
bozo (2): tham, rdr
tham (1): bozo

rdr would know that bozo would move off of me to save himself. If rdr had started to express doubt about me, he could have moved off of bozo and onto me and probably kept bozo on my wagon. He would have known that I could have still moved onto his wagon to tie the vote, but then I look worse, and he could convince bozo to vote me with him today.

On the other hand, rdr's last post before EoD didn't seem like he was worried at all about me claiming a victory by jumping onto his wagon at the last second, which could mean he knew I am town and there was no risk.
I find it unlikely that rdrivera could not find some reason to suspect you might be scum. I think he did not want to take the risk of voting for you and having you switch your vote to him, an he figured his best chance was to NK Pouncy and get you to vote with him D7.
This is something I can agree and this is exactly what I said about Tham not changing his vote didn't be town indicative, the same applies to me.

About not finding a reason to vote Tham hat's not what I said. I can't find a reason to vote him over you. His exchange with Fox seems like budding, the tie thing on D4 is weird, but nothing that I can put over the reasons I have to scumread you.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2014 Post by thamrick » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:54 pm

From the ghug/xorxes day - 45 mins until EoD. Xorxes comes in and responds to two people scumreading and voting for him (me and rdr). Bozo was voting for ghug, so no mention of Bozo (NAI).
xorxes wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:01 pm
thamrick wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:36 pm
The two scummiest notches I have against xorxes are:

1) his weird entry vote on you (Ezio) to start. Saying that you were likely to fearkill him and for simply having a nametag the same as your username. If it was an RVS vote, he planted on it for a long time.
That was obviously not a serious vote. This kind of vote can be useful to see if anyone takes advantage to form a wagon and the reasons they give, and also how the target reacts. Nothing came of it this time, but I'm not sure what you find scummy about it. It's done all the time, not alignment indicative.
2) his response to BB's entry scumread of him (saying not to tunnel him) after BB only mentioned him like three times
Did your perspective on this change when we found out that bb was scum? If I was scum with bb, would I care that much if he scumread me? My response had to do with my history with him because he has tunneled me before and I didn't want that to happen again.
xorxes wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:12 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:42 pm

I pointed that your behaviour in the Ghug/Fox peek discussion wasn't of a town trying to get an answer but scum that want to forge a target.
I was the one that initiated that discussion but it had nothing to do with forging a target. I wanted to understand why they were so intent on keeping it a secret who DD was. The roleblocker thing was Durga's insight, not mine, and only then it became apparent that there was a good reason why scum would want to keep that unresolved as long as possible.
I know that I am town. Xorxes' tone sounds very similar in his responses to both rdr and myself. To me, it reads like someone trying to appeal to save himself. If rdr or myself was scum, I feel like xorxes probably could have counted on his teammate to jump wagons at the last minute since it was 4-4 at this point.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2015 Post by rdrivera2005 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:09 pm

Ok, I was doing some re-reading of Bozo and Tham (again).

Bozo:

I found this post just before EOD3:
Not lynching Foxcastle yesterday was a mistake, if he is scum he will be able to take away a town vote, so we now need three consecutive scum lynches to win. I would not be surprised to see Foxcastle perform a NK or RB tonight, revealing himself to take a town vote. Foxcastle trying to hide his DD tag and the arguments he made against his own lynch make me strongly believe he is scum.

I do not understand Durga’s refusal to lynch Foxcastle yesterday, it is makes me suspect she is scum also and came up with the RB theory to look like town.

I suspect rdrivera as scum as well, his arguments seem flawed this game.
Could you explain why myslinching Ghug the day before didn´t make you re-evaluate your reads. This is one of the posts that made me feel you were working with Ezio.

And this other:
@thamrick: My guess is that Jamie's wagon built up from town votes, possibly exclusively town votes, so the scum stayed off it. If I am right about Ezio being town, one or maybe two scum could have joined Ezio's wagon to make sure Jamie's alternate wagon was town. It is possible there were no scum online at EOD and the scum stayed off both wagons. However, there are only four players left who were not on Jamie or Ezio D1.
I found this statement weird at that point, considering scum usually split their votes D1 and now we know that both Ezio and Xorxes were in Jamiet wagon it seems even more weird to me. Could you explain to me your logic at that point?

Also, you were the biggest poster on Night2 accordingly to Peterbot, something weird as you have 3 posts on N1 and 2 posts on N3. This make me wonder you were trying to attract the cop scan, but then your team decided to just kill the cop as Xorxes was an obvious target.

Tham:

You nailing Xorxes D1 and Brain D2 (even before Yav claim) is impressive. Could you tell what made you scumread Brain as your vote didn´t have much reasoning ?
##VOTE Brainbomb - this brainbomb has a different feel than the one I'm used to)
Also, D1 you started scumreading Xorxes when he want to pressure vote lurkers. Then D3 you started doing exactly the same with nesdunk. What changed?

The last one, one of the less likely name tags was Teacon7, and you said that when Fox questioned you:
@Foxy - just did a quick look. Teacon played every game from 20-26.

It would have been a good fake claim name though. I'll give you that. Is it useful to come up with a list of possible under-the-radar fake claim names that Bo might use if he's scum? BO_SOX is still out there so if Bo peeks and isn't revealed as BO_SOX, we know that at least one person is lying and hasn't peeked.
You did a quick look before or after Fox asked about Teacon?

Right now, I can´t vote other then Bozo.

##vote Bozo

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2016 Post by thamrick » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:35 pm

xorxes wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:07 am
@dargo, that would work if we weren't at LYLO. But all scum have to do in your scheme is switch at the last second and get a mislynch, and they win. They out themselves but what do they care since they have won.

@rd, why are you voting for me? If you were town you would know with 100% certainty that Ezio was scum. No matter how much you scumread me you can't have anything like that certainty with me.

@Pouncy, why are you voting for me when we know for sure that at least one of rdrivera or Ezio is scum, and we can't afford a mislynch today. Can you summarize your case against me? Is it just that I was a counterwagon to ghug, even though almost nobody was there to push either wagon at EOD? Isn't it much more likely that it was town vs town? You assumed a few times in your arguments that both subs were likely town. Why?

@dargo, same question for you, why vote me when we know one of rd and Ezio is scum?

@tham, same question, why bozo instead of one of rd or Ezio?

From my perspective, knowing that I am town, it is patently obvious which one is lying. I see no motivation for scum Ezio to mamnufacture a mislynch in rdrivera and expose himself when I was already going to be the mislynch almost for sure.

I think the other two have to be two of:

Pouncy: Didn't need to check her nametag.
Thamrick: Checked last when everyone had already done it.
bo_sox: Didn't have to check.

But it makes no sense to lynch one of them today, especially since we will have more info on bo_sox tomorrow.

dargo I think is pretty clear because faking the captainmeme nametag would have been extremely risky, and actually checking it as well.

bozo was the second to reveal his tag, so I give him credit, especially since I was townreading him already. I thought saying that he checked D1 might be a way to have an excuse in case someone else claimed the same tag, but that wouldn't really work because there's no way he could have lost the tag (no roleblocks, and if the Oracle took it from him N2 she would have given it to Fox N3, and we know that did not happen.
This xorxes post after the rdr/Ezio claims is pretty informative as well. If Ezio and rdr were both scum, he wouldn't really care which was lynched, which is consistent with asking people to vote between the two of them, but it's pretty clear that xorxes wanted to:

1) protect himself
2) shade the Ezio/rdr conversation in favor of Ezio
3) protect bozo

With xorxes looking scummy and likely to be the lynch after ghug, the biggest question I have from you bozo (and bo too) why would Ezio and rdr cc each other? Why wouldn't Ezio or rdr immediately at the start of day CC xorxes' nametag. If their goal was to get one scum team member enough towncred to be out of the lynchpool long enough to survive a mislynch, why wouldn't they leave one scum member out of it? It'd be a lot easier to get the one mislynch they needed with 2 scum votes on the same page than by setting up a system where Ezio and rdr can't vote together.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2017 Post by thamrick » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:46 pm

I subbed in D1 and asked a few people questions. I asked reedeer if he was going to lurk as much as normal (hoping to goad him into being more active, since lurking is annoying). Xorxes picked up on that and asked me to vote reedeer with him, but immediately listed scumreads and reedeer wasn't in them. I find voting for lurkers and explicitly not scumreading them 1) suspicious and 2) pointless. If you actually want to get a lurker to contribute, you need to question them with actual substance and vote them.

I noted that was a suspicious move from xorxes, saying he wasn't actually scumhunting. That line was echoed throughout the game and eventually led to him being lynched.

As far as why I voted nesdunk. I didn't vote him for lurking. D1 he was actually reasonably involved. N2 as well. It was only about midway through D2 that he dropped off the map. I found nesdunk suspicious from his votes D1 and the weird mixture of acting new and also seeming to know a lot. I wasn't voting on him explicitly to reduce lurking without actually scumreading him.

I looked after Foxy said he didn't know who teacon was.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2018 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:04 pm

thamrick wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:35 pm
xorxes wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:07 am
@dargo, that would work if we weren't at LYLO. But all scum have to do in your scheme is switch at the last second and get a mislynch, and they win. They out themselves but what do they care since they have won.

@rd, why are you voting for me? If you were town you would know with 100% certainty that Ezio was scum. No matter how much you scumread me you can't have anything like that certainty with me.

@Pouncy, why are you voting for me when we know for sure that at least one of rdrivera or Ezio is scum, and we can't afford a mislynch today. Can you summarize your case against me? Is it just that I was a counterwagon to ghug, even though almost nobody was there to push either wagon at EOD? Isn't it much more likely that it was town vs town? You assumed a few times in your arguments that both subs were likely town. Why?

@dargo, same question for you, why vote me when we know one of rd and Ezio is scum?

@tham, same question, why bozo instead of one of rd or Ezio?

From my perspective, knowing that I am town, it is patently obvious which one is lying. I see no motivation for scum Ezio to mamnufacture a mislynch in rdrivera and expose himself when I was already going to be the mislynch almost for sure.

I think the other two have to be two of:

Pouncy: Didn't need to check her nametag.
Thamrick: Checked last when everyone had already done it.
bo_sox: Didn't have to check.

But it makes no sense to lynch one of them today, especially since we will have more info on bo_sox tomorrow.

dargo I think is pretty clear because faking the captainmeme nametag would have been extremely risky, and actually checking it as well.

bozo was the second to reveal his tag, so I give him credit, especially since I was townreading him already. I thought saying that he checked D1 might be a way to have an excuse in case someone else claimed the same tag, but that wouldn't really work because there's no way he could have lost the tag (no roleblocks, and if the Oracle took it from him N2 she would have given it to Fox N3, and we know that did not happen.
This xorxes post after the rdr/Ezio claims is pretty informative as well. If Ezio and rdr were both scum, he wouldn't really care which was lynched, which is consistent with asking people to vote between the two of them, but it's pretty clear that xorxes wanted to:

1) protect himself
2) shade the Ezio/rdr conversation in favor of Ezio
3) protect bozo

With xorxes looking scummy and likely to be the lynch after ghug, the biggest question I have from you bozo (and bo too) why would Ezio and rdr cc each other? Why wouldn't Ezio or rdr immediately at the start of day CC xorxes' nametag. If their goal was to get one scum team member enough towncred to be out of the lynchpool long enough to survive a mislynch, why wouldn't they leave one scum member out of it? It'd be a lot easier to get the one mislynch they needed with 2 scum votes on the same page than by setting up a system where Ezio and rdr can't vote together.
xorxes was being widely scum read at this point, I think you have to take what he said in the context of him likely being lynched soon. His defending me was in no way protecting me. I believe xorxes and the scum team were already trying to set me up as the mislynch they needed to win because I had voted with xorxes and Ezio each day. Also, considering xorxes was already on his way to being lynched, they likely thought Ezio counterclaiming xorxes would look suspicious.

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2019 Post by thamrick » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:16 pm

@bozo - did you even look at the context of when xorxes said that?

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Re: Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

#2020 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:22 pm

@thamrick: Look at this post from Ezio D4:
Ezio wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:24 pm
The scumteam really looks like it's RD and Bozo/Xorxes, in that order of certainty.
Ezio was bussing xorxes here because he was widely scum read and was going to get lynch either D4 or D5. If rdrivera was town, do you think Ezio would bus me also, considering he had just put himself at further risk be counterclaiming rdrivera? Both Ezio and rdrivera were scum reading me so that when one got lynched, the one that did not get lynched would look like town and could push for my lynch.

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