Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

[ghug]

Jamie, you continue to be an idiot. The bo_sox tag is a deterrent to peeking. It also allows us a clear or confirmed scum at some point, although obviously that point isn't yet.

Ezio, what are you saying exactly? You want the gun used before the mafia get it? The concern is that the Ezio role passes to a PR over time if we wait on shooting, though it's also likely to pass toward scum. I don't think it's worth shooting before we have any lynches. We want a chance for the death to be informative. A PR known to have the Ezio role later in the game would also potentially give them cover to perform a few actions before mafia could safely kill them.

[bozotheclown]

As I understand it, the player who looks at his BO_SOX48 nametag has his information revealed to everyone.

[Ezio]

@Ghug once Mafia get the gun they can immediately peek all of their names. If none of them are Ezio they just shoot it and a town is guaranteed to die. I could see it being better to shoot N1 before mafia have a chance to visit but after d1 so we get a little more information.

[Tom Bombadil]

GM NOTE:

bozo is correct in his understanding of the BO_SOX nametag - if the holder of the nametag peeks, his information is revealed to all.

@yavu: Nametags were distributed randomally.

And yes, you can +1 by physically typing +1 in the thread, but not by using the +1 button feature.

[Foxcastle]

Mafia might hesitate, since the GUAK gun does reveal the shooter...

[bozotheclown]

I do not think a random shot of the "fated gun" is the best option for town. I think we would be better off agreeing that no town should use the "fated gun", so that if it is used, the shooter can be assumed to be scum who knew no scum had the EZIO nametag.

[ghug]

Ezio, bo_sox continues to exist, which really undermines the ability of all the mafia to peek, and the worst case you're describing has the same end result as a townie shooting a gun. Ezio's gonna die regardless.

I really hate this strategizing for the worst case thing that people tend to gravitate towards with complicated setups. The game is balanced right now. If we start doing well, sure, we can make the safe moves, but there are upsides to not shooting early too, and playing assuming the worst case scenario limits those when we may end up needing them.

[Ezio]

Ghug you're correct if Ezio is currently on a town. If Ezio is on a mafia they will not shoot the gun until they have reason to believe the Ezio nametag has moved to town (basically after the night has changed).

If we're not shooting the gun today I think Bozo has the right of it where it's best to not shoot the gun at all and if you do you're scum. This still potentially lets scum decide when to use it, but at least it has serious downside.

[Jamiet99uk]

I like the idea of just not ever firing that gun, yeah.

[ghug]

Does guak reveal on death? I'm down with the not shooting if that's the case, though obviously there may be late game edge cases where it's worthwhile anyway.

[yavuzovic]

I want the gun owner to shoot the gun today. I imagined that:
I get the gun. I decided to shoot anyone, but if I shoot anyone and the target is a town, people will think that I am scum. If I don't shoot, a scum will get the gun one day.

[rdrivera2005]

Sorry for lurking a bit. And this weekend I will probably lurk again, too many things to do. Anyway, today I am around.

I know I have complained about discussing mechanics, but I have to say that I think not shooting the gun at start is the best for town. The tags tend to end in PRs or Mafia so it can be useful later to have the gun around. If Mafia end with the gun they will also not be so eager to shoot as the shooter will be revealed and also because they won't know who is Ezio (I don't believe Mafia will risk to peek unless BO tag is dead).

On the other side, I didn't get bad vibes from Bozo, something weird and I think Fox questioning style a bit off. And Durga is probably town, she isn't irritated.

[rdrivera2005]

I want the gun owner to shoot the gun today. I imagined that:
I get the gun. I decided to shoot anyone, but if I shoot anyone and the target is a town, people will think that I am scum. If I don't shoot, a scum will get the gun one day.

Yav, you understand we are talking about the Guak tag and that this role can't choose who to shot, it will shoot the player with the Ezio tag?

[yavuzovic]

Hmmm, got it now. Okay. Anyway Ezio is right. Shooting it before EoD1 is still the best choice.

[nesdunk14]

I'll second that. Higher chance of a mafia kill than a PR. We do lose a mafia reveal though, but who's to say they would take their chances with that if we delayed anyways?

[yavuzovic]

Are you tagged as Guak?

[Foxcastle]

We shouldn't shoot the Fated Gun on day 1. We shouldn't shoot it at all. That's the safest course. If a mafia has the GUAK tag, they don't know who has the EZIO tag, but they know that there's only a 3-in-16 chance that it's their scummate, so it's likely to hit town. Also, they'll probably be townread for it later on when we've all forgotten how dumb it would be to think that. "Come on," they'll say, "if I were scum there's no way I would have risked shooting my teammate!"

[VashtaNeurotic]

Okay, so I'm caught up on this game. Two main thoughts re: mechanics.

First, re: nametags. No one should peek at their nametags, the best thing to do is wait a couple days, until the numbers are lower, and have everyone peek AND claim. This will reveal who bo sox is, but at that point we likely get a confirmed town when we need it most, sure maybe it reveals a PR, but I'm willing to take the risk at that point.

Re: Gun Holder
First off, guns are bad, they rarely ever kill mafia and only catch mafia when they choose to shoot someone who is obv town, and they cause a bunch of confusion while stifling discussion. Since the guak gun reveals the shooter and flavor names are revealed upon death, we will know when this gun is fired aside from a statistical anomaly. As such I think we should all agree that if someone fires this gun, they are likely scum or stupid, and should therefore lynch them.
I'm not talking about not firing today, to be clear. I'm talking about NEVER firing that gun if you have it, so don't.

Further more, I think anyone who is in favor of this idea (Ezio, bozo and yavuz upon first skimming) are suspect. Not a guarantee of being mafia, but I think it certainly increases the chances they are, since it gives plausible deniability to likely kill a townie.

[yavuzovic]

So,
Should I not peak my nametag then? Vashta sounds logical.
Also a question: Does the gun holder know himself?

[bozotheclown]

@Vashta: When you said "anyone who is in favor of this idea", what idea were you referring to? yavuzovic and I said the exact opposite thing about what we think the player with the "fated gun" should do.