Mafia 1016: America's Past-Crime [HIDDEN]

[Jamiet99uk]

Please explain yourself, Kgray.

[Jamiet99uk]

##Vote Kgray

[Vecna]

##call gm

Can we get some clarification on what is happening?

Is it end-hammered on no kill?

[BunnyGo]

##call gm

Can we get some clarification on what is happening?

Is it end-hammered on no kill?

We're both still fairly distracted.

As the GMs made clear that no hammers would be acknowledged during a prolonged absence, the game shall continue with the day unended. Please proceed. Day will end in 6.5 hours, unless hammered before then.

[Jamiet99uk]

I will not be online at EoD, I have to be up at a reasonable time for work.

I think it's Kgray or lfischl. It's not me. If it's you Vecna, well done.

For the record, the main reason I moderated my suspicion of lfischl yesterday, was that, prior to Rdrivera's claim, I thought lfischl might have been the Vig.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm in favour of a no-kill and if Kgray gets her vote off me, I'll go back to no-kill.

[kgray]

Dont really wanna go into it, but look at the potential kills and what that does to the scenarios with different scum candidates. You'll see what I mean.

Hmm. Okay maybe I know what you’re saying.

##vote Jamie then.

I’ll come back to this in like 9 hours.

Not amusing.

Why do you think it's a joke?

[kgray]

Please explain yourself, Kgray.

Explain what? That I townread Vecna and lfischl more than you?

[Vecna]

Let me expand on why I think no kill is a bad idea here:

The kill is just going to default to either me or Kgray, depending on who the last scum is.

That results in a 3way situation where either:

-Ifischl blindvotes me, losing it for town guaranteed if he is town and Jamiet is scum.
-Kgray is much more likely to be misskilled since I wont be around to keep her from being miskilled.

[kgray]

I will not be online at EoD, I have to be up at a reasonable time for work.

I think it's Kgray or lfischl. It's not me. If it's you Vecna, well done.

For the record, the main reason I moderated my suspicion of lfischl yesterday, was that, prior to Rdrivera's claim, I thought lfischl might have been the Vig.

Why did you think lfischl was the vig?

[Jamiet99uk]

I will not be online at EoD, I have to be up at a reasonable time for work.

I think it's Kgray or lfischl. It's not me. If it's you Vecna, well done.

For the record, the main reason I moderated my suspicion of lfischl yesterday, was that, prior to Rdrivera's claim, I thought lfischl might have been the Vig.

Why did you think lfischl was the vig?

Partly because I had it down, in my mind, to only a few people, and partly because of the way he said he said "I'm not claiming Vig either" in response to Dargorygel, but of course I was wrong.

If you are town, why do you townread lfischl?

[Jamiet99uk]

Let me expand on why I think no kill is a bad idea here:

The kill is just going to default to either me or Kgray, depending on who the last scum is.

That results in a 3way situation where either:

-Ifischl blindvotes me, losing it for town guaranteed if he is town and Jamiet is scum.
-Kgray is much more likely to be misskilled since I wont be around to keep her from being miskilled.

Are you certain that the final scum is either lfischl or myself?
That is, are you convinced that Kgray is town?

[Vecna]

Let me expand on why I think no kill is a bad idea here:

The kill is just going to default to either me or Kgray, depending on who the last scum is.

That results in a 3way situation where either:

-Ifischl blindvotes me, losing it for town guaranteed if he is town and Jamiet is scum.
-Kgray is much more likely to be misskilled since I wont be around to keep her from being miskilled.

Are you certain that the final scum is either lfischl or myself?
That is, are you convinced that Kgray is town?

Yes, I will not vote Kgray. If im wrong there, she just deserves the win. Theres too much stuff that happened this game that screams town to me on her end. Theres a bunch of scummy things she did, but every town always does scummy stuff, and I know that I shared most of her sentiments and made the same scummy moves during D1.

I dont think ill vote you either. Unless Ifischl comes in here and completely changes my mind.

I feel like writing a wall on Ifischl, why I think I have to reverse my read there, why he has to be the last scum and all that. However, I want him to come and talk to us. Without me first confbiasing a reason together to vote him here, because my gut feeling on his slot still has issues.

Is it likely to happen? nope.

[Vecna]

Kgray, care to compare notes on why we thought Ifischl was towny to begin with?

And if they still hold up, given how he handled the voting yesterday?

I just dont think I can get myself to vote Jamiet here and risk losing to Ifischl, playing the way that he is.

Him letting go of his stubborn reads yesterday just to get Darg killed felt wrong and has me questioning my read there.

[kgray]

I will not be online at EoD, I have to be up at a reasonable time for work.

I think it's Kgray or lfischl. It's not me. If it's you Vecna, well done.

For the record, the main reason I moderated my suspicion of lfischl yesterday, was that, prior to Rdrivera's claim, I thought lfischl might have been the Vig.

Why did you think lfischl was the vig?

Partly because I had it down, in my mind, to only a few people, and partly because of the way he said he said "I'm not claiming Vig either" in response to Dargorygel, but of course I was wrong.

If you are town, why do you townread lfischl?

lfischl made it pretty obvious he thought celaph was the vig... How do you read that and assume it's actually lfischl?

He's said some things that I don't think come from scum. He teased Vecna and Maniac in a way that didn't feel like what he'd do as scum when he could just blend in, given the way he played town last game. Him calling out Durga the way he did for how she reacted to bozo's flip seems impossible as their teammate. Maybe he's just cheeky though, I don't know.

He focused on me not explaining my damo vote as his reason to scumread me, not on me saving Durga and bozo, and once they flipped he could have poked at that harder to get me miskilled? If bozo was defending me to link me to the scum, then they'd have talked about that in scumchat. But he started to back off his scumread of me after they flipped, which kind of negates the theory that he's part of a scumteam who was trying to set me up.

And look at how he was pushing Durga:

literally i'm sorry but bona has posted practically nothing substantive (and he's actually been around) and he continues to just react to his name and not much else. i'm pretty sure he's scum here

But what have you done this game. You can’t be saying that bona isn’t doing anything for town when you did nothing day 1.

Like... I just don't see him as the kind of player to do mind-games with pocketing bona here to bus his teammate for the same reason Durga was shading bona. Unless there was a lot more coaching going on in scum chat than there normally is, and they were trying to distance super hard...

[Jamiet99uk]

lfischl made it pretty obvious he thought celaph was the vig... How do you read that and assume it's actually lfischl?

I thought (wrongly, I now know) that he was trying to remain hidden.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Kgray:

You are still voting me, I notice.

Are you so sure that I'm scum that you'd rather daykill me (which will result in a loss for town if you and I are both town), than no-kill today?

If so, how can you explain such a high level of confidence in my guilt?

[Vecna]

btw, jamiet, whats the norm for instant night games with no kill repetition? can we force scum to kill first here?

[Vecna]

##call GM: If town vote no-kill, and scum no-kill, who is forced to kill first?

[kgray]

Kgray, care to compare notes on why we thought Ifischl was towny to begin with?

And if they still hold up, given how he handled the voting yesterday?

I just dont think I can get myself to vote Jamiet here and risk losing to Ifischl, playing the way that he is.

Him letting go of his stubborn reads yesterday just to get Darg killed felt wrong and has me questioning my read there.

Sure. Some of it I just posted, some of it is how much you did townread him tbh. I can look for more in a bit.

I also think the way he flipped to get Darg killed was odd and opportunistic. I can't decide if it's scummy though. It was hard to get him to explain stuff when he was town, too, and I feel like this could just be one of those cases where he's always going to be evasive and scumread because we can't follow his thoughts since he doesn't explain them. He could be using that as cover, though, yeah.

I kind of agree, I don't want to let him get away with this as scum. And if it's Jamie (or you, but I can't handle that right now) then certainly he deserves the win more than lfischl. But I'd rather win myself... And I just think this is one of those cases where Jamie's a lot more likely to be fooling me than lfischl is.