Mafia 57 Matrix

[e.m.c^42]

Which players are you referring to when you say that? I'm genuinely curious.

Tem likely, possibly Chaqa and Bungo, FoxC until he purportedly understood but I don't know

So to be clear that means you think those people are scummy for that reason.

Bring that back to D1. How do the moves at EOD make sense with those new scum reads? Specifically Bunny's moves. How do the wagons look?

No, I don't think they're scummy, except maybe Chaqa, where did that come from?

I'm saying that they just kinda sheeped, which is probably what I would've done lol

[e.m.c^42]

It's not a read, just pointing out, reading alignment into it is after

[bo_sox48]

You were the one that wanted to give RHK time to get out of a scenario in which he obviously needed to flip. If you were thinking that damo is scum and faking it, and you have a motivation for him doing so in mind, what is it, and why didn't you explicate this while you had the opportunity?

Moreover, if you think that damo is scum and faking it, what are the odds of this being the case versus other plausible scenarios?

Please calm down and stop being so aggressive towards me. It is quite unnecessary.

I think Damo being scum is the less likely scenario. He is more likely in my view to be genuine, and DemonRHK was the Miller.

I am not going to calculate specific odds, that's not my thing.

I'm not being aggressive at all, but when I ask real questions I do have a habit of getting annoyed at receiving a non-answer in response. Thank you for answering my questions.

[goldfinger0303]

For real?

Yeah. I know that you've implying something and is almost certainly town but I don't know what.

Nobody tell him.

Still catching up.

@gold: I have done no analysis of what happened on the wagon since I was last here. I’m with Tom on this: hammering was dumb dumb dumb. And take it from me, I know dumb.

As for day1? I’ve learned little new. My Damo read was solid (self high-five) and I stand by my previous statement that it appears like ALL the wagons that day were town. So we should TAKE SOME TIME AND ANALYZE!!

Imagine: you’re scum, and every wagon is town. Do you move? Do you shake things up? Remember: the way to win webdip mafia is to not screw up. So giving a WIFOM (or as swordsman puts it yomi 1) play of “yes, I move so this analysis can’t be done later” is stupid. So...go back and look at who was confident. Who wasn’t here. Who was here and didn’t move. You’ll find your scum there.

I think there’s more to be learned there than in analyzing D2 (thanks for hammering)

Thanks Bunny. I'm almost there with you, but I'm just not sure on emc. And right now a scum emc is about the only thing that would lead me to scumreading you. You're still of the opinion he's town?

[bo_sox48]

I feel like there are certainly more than a few players who had no idea what damo was implying when they just went along and hammered RHK, since I still haven't a clue

Which players are you referring to when you say that? I'm genuinely curious.

Tem likely, possibly Chaqa and Bungo, FoxC until he purportedly understood but I don't know

I'm listening with open ears to any of your analysis on these folks.

[goldfinger0303]

Tem likely, possibly Chaqa and Bungo, FoxC until he purportedly understood but I don't know

So to be clear that means you think those people are scummy for that reason.

Bring that back to D1. How do the moves at EOD make sense with those new scum reads? Specifically Bunny's moves. How do the wagons look?

No, I don't think they're scummy, except maybe Chaqa, where did that come from?

I'm saying that they just kinda sheeped, which is probably what I would've done lol

Well that's why I stated that - wanted to be sure we were on the same page.

Well, you had a wagon instantly appear on you yesterday. You now know with certainty about half that wagon was not scum. You now know with certainty an additional alternative wagon was not scum. Since we do not know with certainty your alignment but you do, I was hoping this reveal would be somewhat of an "aha!" moment for you.

[BunnyGo]

Yeah. I know that you've implying something and is almost certainly town but I don't know what.

Nobody tell him.

Still catching up.

@gold: I have done no analysis of what happened on the wagon since I was last here. I’m with Tom on this: hammering was dumb dumb dumb. And take it from me, I know dumb.

As for day1? I’ve learned little new. My Damo read was solid (self high-five) and I stand by my previous statement that it appears like ALL the wagons that day were town. So we should TAKE SOME TIME AND ANALYZE!!

Imagine: you’re scum, and every wagon is town. Do you move? Do you shake things up? Remember: the way to win webdip mafia is to not screw up. So giving a WIFOM (or as swordsman puts it yomi 1) play of “yes, I move so this analysis can’t be done later” is stupid. So...go back and look at who was confident. Who wasn’t here. Who was here and didn’t move. You’ll find your scum there.

I think there’s more to be learned there than in analyzing D2 (thanks for hammering)

Thanks Bunny. I'm almost there with you, but I'm just not sure on emc. And right now a scum emc is about the only thing that would lead me to scumreading you. You're still of the opinion he's town?

Less and less with every post in your conversation with him. It’s been an interesting interview.

I repeat: nobody tell EMC what happened.

[ghug]

Nobody tell him.

Still catching up.

@gold: I have done no analysis of what happened on the wagon since I was last here. I’m with Tom on this: hammering was dumb dumb dumb. And take it from me, I know dumb.

As for day1? I’ve learned little new. My Damo read was solid (self high-five) and I stand by my previous statement that it appears like ALL the wagons that day were town. So we should TAKE SOME TIME AND ANALYZE!!

Imagine: you’re scum, and every wagon is town. Do you move? Do you shake things up? Remember: the way to win webdip mafia is to not screw up. So giving a WIFOM (or as swordsman puts it yomi 1) play of “yes, I move so this analysis can’t be done later” is stupid. So...go back and look at who was confident. Who wasn’t here. Who was here and didn’t move. You’ll find your scum there.

I think there’s more to be learned there than in analyzing D2 (thanks for hammering)

Thanks Bunny. I'm almost there with you, but I'm just not sure on emc. And right now a scum emc is about the only thing that would lead me to scumreading you. You're still of the opinion he's town?

Less and less with every post in your conversation with him. It’s been an interesting interview.

I repeat: nobody tell EMC what happened.

Do you think he actually doesn't know?

[BunnyGo]

@ghug that’s one option. I’m listening. And I’m never sure about his abilities to connect dots.

Why would he want to mislead us about this? As Town? As scum?

[ghug]

@ghug that’s one option. I’m listening. And I’m never sure about his abilities to connect dots.

Why would he want to mislead us about this? As Town? As scum?

As scum he'd definitely know. That's all I'm really getting at.

[TheFlyingBoat]

@Bunny and @emc

Can we have updated reads on the EOD1 wagons from your perspective now?

@TFB - why do you say scum was on the wagon? I mean, statistically probably some were, but you say it with such certainty. Wouldn't scum be just as happy to sit back and not enter the thread until after townies had done their work for them?

My view is that a cop claim by someone that isn't mafia on someone mafia know to be town allows them to throw their vote on the target of the investigation with impunity. The next day when it turns out it was a townie they can just play dumb and say they trusted the cop. If I had to guess 2-4 were on that wagon. I think at least one would have stayed off probably two. My guess is they would be two people who stuck to other wagons we believe to be town while posting actively after Damo's post, those who posted afterwards and didn't vote, and then those who were asleep and woke up lucky. Maybe my view of a mafia's strat here is overly simplistic but I think a mafia player would happily leap on a bad Neb wagon assuming there would be no repercussions and only great results.

[BunnyGo]

@ghug that’s one option. I’m listening. And I’m never sure about his abilities to connect dots.

Why would he want to mislead us about this? As Town? As scum?

As scum he'd definitely know. That's all I'm really getting at.

I was aware. If he was scum and pretending not to know, I didn’t want him realizing that.

Sometimes it’s nice to keep things unsaid while someone is immolating themselves.

[ghug]

@Bunny and @emc

Can we have updated reads on the EOD1 wagons from your perspective now?

@TFB - why do you say scum was on the wagon? I mean, statistically probably some were, but you say it with such certainty. Wouldn't scum be just as happy to sit back and not enter the thread until after townies had done their work for them?

My view is that a cop claim by someone that isn't mafia on someone mafia know to be town allows them to throw their vote on the target of the investigation with impunity. The next day when it turns out it was a townie they can just play dumb and say they trusted the cop. If I had to guess 2-4 were on that wagon. I think at least one would have stayed off probably two. My guess is they would be two people who stuck to other wagons we believe to be town while posting actively after Damo's post, those who posted afterwards and didn't vote, and then those who were asleep and woke up lucky. Maybe my view of a mafia's strat here is overly simplistic but I think a mafia player would happily leap on a bad Neb wagon assuming there would be no repercussions and only great results.

You're aware there's no cop, right?

[TheFlyingBoat]

@Bunny and @emc

Can we have updated reads on the EOD1 wagons from your perspective now?

@TFB - why do you say scum was on the wagon? I mean, statistically probably some were, but you say it with such certainty. Wouldn't scum be just as happy to sit back and not enter the thread until after townies had done their work for them?

My view is that a cop claim by someone that isn't mafia on someone mafia know to be town allows them to throw their vote on the target of the investigation with impunity. The next day when it turns out it was a townie they can just play dumb and say they trusted the cop. If I had to guess 2-4 were on that wagon. I think at least one would have stayed off probably two. My guess is they would be two people who stuck to other wagons we believe to be town while posting actively after Damo's post, those who posted afterwards and didn't vote, and then those who were asleep and woke up lucky. Maybe my view of a mafia's strat here is overly simplistic but I think a mafia player would happily leap on a bad Neb wagon assuming there would be no repercussions and only great results.

You're aware there's no cop, right?

Referring to the Neb Oracle as the cop for simplicity sake

[worcej]

Why you folks would end vote is so incredibly dumb.

Does nobody read the setup?

Glad I had an opportunity to chime in before we end voted a townie.

Once the effective decision is made (the reveal by damo) it makes no sense to drag out the whole day. What would you really gain from that?

I can tell you I would just go off and do other stuff while we waited for the flip to happen.

[worcej]

Didn't expect to see this much action when checking in today. So we lost another good one.

Did we?

I like Demon as a person, but what value did he bring this game to warrant this statement?

[Tom Bombadil]

Why you folks would end vote is so incredibly dumb.

Does nobody read the setup?

Glad I had an opportunity to chime in before we end voted a townie.

Once the effective decision is made (the reveal by damo) it makes no sense to drag out the whole day. What would you really gain from that?

I can tell you I would just go off and do other stuff while we waited for the flip to happen.

Because scum can easily hide when they have time to craft a reaction or repsonse. Its always better to get quick repsonses as they tend to a) more easily read people - particularly town read people.

How people react to the what is going on is important. Not everyone would just peace out and sheep like you.

[worcej]

What use are our PRs now? Chosen one is dead. The whole point of these PRs is to protect the Chosen One. The only good they are is to 1) Be confirmed town and 2) Coordinate with other (hopefully) town in the ship.

And don't forget there's a bulletproof virus on the ship who would love nothing more than to draw a NK by countering.

Mafia want to get *on* the ship, not kill everyone on it. Sacrificing one of their own for a potentially blocked shot and lynched VT on D2 is inane

This guy gets it.

[worcej]

Why you folks would end vote is so incredibly dumb.

Does nobody read the setup?

Glad I had an opportunity to chime in before we end voted a townie.

Once the effective decision is made (the reveal by damo) it makes no sense to drag out the whole day. What would you really gain from that?

I can tell you I would just go off and do other stuff while we waited for the flip to happen.

Because scum can easily hide when they have time to craft a reaction or repsonse. Its always better to get quick repsonses as they tend to a) more easily read people - particularly town read people.

How people react to the what is going on is important. Not everyone would just peace out and sheep like you.

So, based on the highlighted portion, hammering was the right thing to do.

Also, with a day chat, do you really think you'd get some weird responses from scum?

[Tom Bombadil]

Once the effective decision is made (the reveal by damo) it makes no sense to drag out the whole day. What would you really gain from that?

I can tell you I would just go off and do other stuff while we waited for the flip to happen.

Because scum can easily hide when they have time to craft a reaction or repsonse. Its always better to get quick repsonses as they tend to a) more easily read people - particularly town read people.

How people react to the what is going on is important. Not everyone would just peace out and sheep like you.

So, based on the highlighted portion, hammering was the right thing to do.

Also, with a day chat, do you really think you'd get some weird responses from scum?

Probably not - but I'd probably get some town reactions from townies - which I find way more effective anyway to find the townies and then POE.