M1011 - Revenge of the Space Mutants - Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

I dunno Tom, that’s not Neph’s standard MO. Maybe he is scummy? ##VOTE NEPH

Being aloof is kind of his MO. And he subbed out - doesn't that partially explain why he wasn't active? Not sure why is inactivity around the deadline is scummy, when the other explanation is that he was busy - an explanation clearly backed up by his asking to be subbed out.

Hmm. Maybe my humor is too highbrow for Tom...

Maybe he is trying to town slip.

[Tom Bombadil]

I do not think the part about what is in character for Nephthys is accurate. What games were you basing this assessment on?

I don’t know bozo. I’m not going to look back and figure out what games I played or GM’d with Neph to explain why I think he can be lazy in the early game. I’ll let you do that.

I reviewed his past games and could not find any game to support your assessment of Nephthys. That makes your assessment sound like a fabrication, unless you can give some supporting reason.

Ok. So I looked back and part of the reason is I confused him with DoubtingThomas who was the cop in the game I faked cop. So my impression could be wrong. I guess I'll go look at some prior Neph games. (But regardless, meta is tough here since he was clearly hampered with time)

[Tom Bombadil]

… I feel dumb. Be back in a bit.

[BunnyGo]

scum team predictions:

bozo: damo, Chaqa, Tom
damo: bozo, Chaqa, bunny
foodcoats: damo, BunnyGo, Chaqa
Vecna: Chaqa, Tom, BunnyGo

I did have some comments.

[BunnyGo]

Being aloof is kind of his MO. And he subbed out - doesn't that partially explain why he wasn't active? Not sure why is inactivity around the deadline is scummy, when the other explanation is that he was busy - an explanation clearly backed up by his asking to be subbed out.

Hmm. Maybe my humor is too highbrow for Tom...

Maybe he is trying to town slip.

That’s a very heavy handed town slip.

[bozotheclown]

Hmm. Maybe my humor is too highbrow for Tom...

Maybe he is trying to town slip.

That’s a very heavy handed town slip.

So do you think that indicates Tom is town?

[bozotheclown]

I don’t know bozo. I’m not going to look back and figure out what games I played or GM’d with Neph to explain why I think he can be lazy in the early game. I’ll let you do that.

I reviewed his past games and could not find any game to support your assessment of Nephthys. That makes your assessment sound like a fabrication, unless you can give some supporting reason.

Ok. So I looked back and part of the reason is I confused him with DoubtingThomas who was the cop in the game I faked cop. So my impression could be wrong. I guess I'll go look at some prior Neph games. (But regardless, meta is tough here since he was clearly hampered with time)

DoubtingThomas had 98 D1 post in M42 and did not miss any deadlines.

[BunnyGo]

Maybe he is trying to town slip.

That’s a very heavy handed town slip.

So do you think that indicates Tom is town?

I haven’t read him yet. But if I had to bet if this was more likely town or scum, I’d guess he’s town. (Again going off the last 2-3 pages alone)

[Vecna]

I still don't understand the scumread of Neph. He barely posted D1, missed the deadline - posted little D2 and subbed out. POE makes him plausible, but I don't understand people genuinely scumreading him.

It's like the people who believe he deliberately missed the deadline haven't considered that his subbing out brings credence to the fact that he may have genuinely missed the deadline.

Or he was asked to sub out by his team so his mislynch wont ruin their perfect scumwin today...

He was inactive during the first few days in last game too but was just fine playing along at a low volume.

[BunnyGo]

So it seems everyone so far scum reads chaqa. Why?

[damo666]

Looking back on D1 under the assumption damo is scum (because if he is town we are about to lose anyway).

I've expressed my paranoia that kgray is scum and bussed, because otherwise the entire damo wagon was town.

That being said, I don't think kgray is scum. She voted damo, but at the same time scumread xorx, and probably even posted more about xorx D1. She was also online at the deadline. She could have easily voted xorx at the end to avoid potential ties, as xorx was someone she also scumread.

Probably town after all. Which means everyone on damo was town. And I find it hard to believe all scum were on the same wagon if it was town v town. So either damo is scum, or scum weren't around (Chaqa/Neph)

Not if you don't lynch me.

[kgray]

@worcej I didn't have a chance to reply to this yesterday because I needed to catch up at EOD, but I wanted to comment on this part of your post:

I don't have an issue with you poking, it's that you seem to assume the worst case and seem to not operate off information presented to you from your PRs. And if you try to compare my logic to someone like xorxes or bozo, I'll always be scum to you because I do not think or act like them.

I'm not sure what you mean by me trying to assume the worst case, but really what I'm trying to do is not take anything as fact. I understand that there is information to be gained and that you have to make assumptions to piece together the game. You and food provided us with information and I'm not trying to discredit that, it's just that there are other things going on too and I fundamentally disagree with making an assumption like "either summit or vecna is scum" and therefore narrowing down the lynch between the two of them.

And you're definitely right about my tendency to scumread certain people because they don't think/act like I do, and that you're one of those people. But I am trying to remove those instincts from my scumreads. For example, that's why I've been second-guessing my scumread of damo. I am worried that it was mostly based on my predisposition to think his way of playing is scummy, and I'm concerned that we have another TvT scenario where nobody thinks that it's possible that both damo and xorxes could be town and that's going to lose us the game.

Anyway, my point is that I am trying to be more open to different playstyles. It helps a lot that your claim makes you almost certainly town, so I can trust your intentions in this game. I am going to keep poking, though :)

[kgray]

So D1 we have three confirmed town on damo's wagon, and the other two being myself and kgray. I don't strongly suspect kgray is scum. Knowing my alignment, if kgray is also town, there were 5 town on damos wagon.

T v T seems unlikely in that scenario.

##vote damo

I know xorxes and damo talked about this earlier, but why do you think it's unlikely it was TvT if only town were on damo's wagon? I don't see a huge reason for scum to vote for town!damo in this scenario. If voting for xorxes (or worcej or nobody) gets them a xorxes mislynch, and a setup for a damo mislynch, AND the assumption that there'd be scum on damo's wagon... That would be a pretty great outcome for scum, right?

That said, I strongly townread bozo, and I'm treating worcej and food as confirmed town, so that only leaves chaqa, neph/bunny, and emc/vecna in that case. Not sure that's most likely.

[kgray]

- Food could be real Vig and was unfortunately commuted for some reason by summit. My guess was he was hunting scum and not really trying to protect anyone specfic.

Not sure it matters at this point, but it looks like summit was commuting his townreads to protect them, given that he townread food D1 and bozo D2.

- Scum probably RB'ed summit if they actually killed him, so my gut says they figured he was PR during the day.

Summit's commute comes before RB in the action order, so they probably didn't RB him unless they somehow thought he was a vig, but that seems unlikely. What do you mean by "if they actually killed him"?

My thoughts:
- VCA would indicate Tom and kgray would be the scum that could be bussing Damo on D1 and couldn't move due to EOD positions.
- Neph continues to looks bad and uninterested in VCA's for 2 phases, which leads me to believe he is scum because Neph normally cares in games.
- My scum team thoughts are damo / (Tom/kgray) / (Chaqa/Neph) - I believe bozo is town and EMC/Vecna is town out of the group and just sheer odds. I lean Tom more scummy than kgray and honestly would probably consider Chaqa more scummy than Neph simply because I don't think Neph is as blatant about being scum and Chaqa is able to be scum pretty easily.

Can you explain your scumteam thoughts more? Do you have it as me/Tom because you don't think the D1 damo wagon could have been all town? Why are Chaqa and Neph an either/or pair? What odds make emc/Vecna more likely town?

[kgray]

My analysis and thought process is damo is smart enough as town to know there is zero point in saving yourself as a VT. The flip is worth more than your presence in the game because it narrows down the field for PRs to do their work while also allowing VCA.

FWIW - damo as scum has shown the ability to focus on pairs and team setups, so him trying to continue to build off the information that D1 was TvT is in his scum game realm of options.

I get your point, and I agree that the tied vote was a huge disadvantage. But I really don't think that tying the vote to save yourself is alignment-indicative at all. I think preventing a known mislynch is better than proving that you're a VT. I know we disagree on this so we don't need to hash it out further, but regardless of what is actualy the better play for town I think many townies would self-save. So I don't scumread damo for that vote.

That said, the timing of damo's vote is definitely suspicious. It would have been far better for him to do it earlier so we could react. He claims he didn't check in until right at EOD so I don't think I'm ever going to know if this was actually intentional or not.

[kgray]

Today we don't have to worry about it if my reading of the roles is right, but tomorrow onward the mafia could have a vote doubling ability - so we need to make sure our wagons are not too close or else one mafia member could switch and do a 3 vote swing.

##Vote EMC until he votes, as is tradition

Not dropping damo off the radar, but I want to pressure EMC to not get modkilled again, like he has before. Damo's comment still seems like an extremely forced way to vote xorx. Maybe they're teammates?

Hey guys. About to head out to dinner with friends, but I’ll touch base later. Haven’t played a vanilla game in forever, and good to see a few old faces back (sup food) as well as some new blood.

##Vote EMC until he casts a vote (<3)

Chaqa was scum in the older game.

Chaqa was town in this game:

About halfway caught up. It's hard to even see the screen through all this toilet paper, but I'm trying. Preliminary and not that serious ##Vote EMC until he casts a vote or I find someone better.

[kgray]

Stupid fucking comment. I clearly am saying I can't be bothered reading and am leaving it up to others to decide on the importance.

ffs

It's the fucking polar opposite!!!!!

damo was scum in the older game.

Damo was town in this game:

Worcej and Flum need to fuck off spamming the thread like that. Seriously guys, fuck off.

Absolutely agree.

Really angry. Makes the game almost unplayable. A further transgression and I will appeal to the committee/council whatever the fuck it is and request a temporary ban. I mean it. Do NOT fucking repeat such stupidity.

[kgray]

@bozo you're obviously bringing up those posts from old games to explain/justify/further your scumreads of Chaqa and damo but they're clearly cherry picked as both have done similar things as town. This seems like you're trying to force a narrative. How much weight are you giving to these posts and damo and Chaqa's meta in general?

[Jamiet99uk]

I dunno Tom, that’s not Neph’s standard MO. Maybe he is scummy? ##VOTE NEPH

GM NOTE: This vote is not valid. If you want to vote for yourself, you need to use your own name, not that of the player you replaced.

[kgray]

That seems like a silly way to justify voting one of the strongest town players on the site damo.

##vote damo

Agreed. ##Vote damo

Bus damo some more?

Do you think both of scum!damo's teammates would vote him right out the gate like that? For such a (imo) bad reason?