M53: Mafia 1 Redux

[BunnyGo]

Trying to catch up for EOD. Have to pick up kids.

1) I’m fed up with EMC. I policy voted last game and will do again
2) Kalel is scummy scum scum
3) the rest looks noisy to me. Could be anything so far
4) I’m so glad BB is here. I’m surprised I’m saying that.

So this was Bunnys latest reads before switching from emc to a damo wagon. Bunny, why did you vote for damo and not give reasoning when Kalel appeared to be a strong scum read of yours just a few posts before?

I always get kalel wrong. Literally every game. I’ve pushed hard and got a wagon going on him when he was town. I defended him when he was scum.

I thought Vecna seemed solid. And so went to Damo who I had a scummy vibe but like I said “day 1”. I thought EMC was town. I still think kalel is scummy, but don’t trust my read there.

[BunnyGo]

Brainbomb's guilt is very clear to me. He posted a fake vote at a crucial moment, and then he lied again about why he fake-voted. I will present a detailed case just before EoN, and then we should lynch Brainbomb tomorrow.

In his defense: that fake vote directly lead to scum being lynched. This was a predictable result.

[Vecna]

I'm currently curious regarding BG's reason for wanting EMC to vote.

Most of us dislike EMC's voting patterns as it denies analysis of his voting patterns.

BG however comes in talking about modkills. To my knowledge, this has never really factored into the generalised dislike for his play style. As such I wonder to what degree his dislike is factual and to what degree its forced bandwagoning to fit in

to be fair, EMC not voting has caused him to be modkilled as a town PR at a crucial moment a few games ago.

The weird thing is the timing of bringing that up, and suddenly pushing that so hard. But still not voting him over it due to "the out"

[Vecna]

if we all vote hammer in game thread we can learn who scum is cuz they wont wanna do it

Its not like scum couldnt just endvote. All they have to do is decide on a roleblock and a NK.

Both seem like pretty easy choices.

Also, youre fully aware a night has never been hammered in webdip history so this just feels a bit desperate.

[BunnyGo]

Looking back on the last hour or so before EoD, (loads of fun, it was quite thrilling to see how it actually panned out), but Kitsune don't look great from the last few minutes there. That attempt to switch to bozo, plus the uncertainty on emc didn't seem very towny. Biggest standout from that last hour for me. (Also brainbomb attempting to roll bunny over to an extra vote looked real bad).

Once EMC flips, and all their mistakes are leading to EMC being lynched it looks better.

[foodcoats]

Well I just noticed my three pings were all the low posters. So that was probably a subconscious bias.

I don't really like the emc wagon. I am not in principle opposed to a policy lynch, because I think it is almost certain that at least one scum is lurking D1, but I think a much better option than emc is flash. emc is pretty active this game, and town!emc has shown reckless abandon in at least two games I've played to allow themselves to be lynched in favour of protecting their meta of late voting. This means that emc is an easy mislynch for scum, and also that emc isn't even really a good policy option here because, votes aside, and whether or not you like what emc has posted, they are participating at a solid level. Lynching emc here is in my eyes equal to lynching brainbomb: you can't sort them adequately yet, and they are definitely not lurking, so it's a bad play to lynch them just because you're not getting what you want from them.

##VOTE flash2015

Does this need to be looked into more? He deliberately off wagoned as well.

Possible deep scum?

KILL NEPHTHYS
KIIIIILLLL HIIIIIIMMMM

[Vecna]

Me doing something that risky for a not easily forsee-able (for me at least) townread is almost enough to discount the theory already though. We all know I'm not good at this game, a fact which Squigs delights in.

I'm starting to get really annoyed that you are painting me a villain. If you take issue with the case I put on you, then tell us what was wrong with it. If you think my case on you had ulterior motives, then call me scum, vote for me, and convince others of that. But dont shade me, paint me as a bad guy, characterize me as someone who delights in your pain. I saw some aspects of your play that were questionable, so I questioned you, I pushed you, I got a conversation going. That's how you play the game.

Once upon a time I joined M3. I wasn't even 18 yet, but I thought, oooh, mafia, this will be fun. I proceeded to get wrecked by ghug. He wasn't very nice to me, and well, I wasnt very good at the game. I was a defensive noob, and ghug ran me up like day 2 as an easy mislynch. I played again, and ghug mislynched me again. I've looked back on the game, and I'm pretty sure I would have mislynched myself. Ghugs push on me was good for me though. If it weren't for him, I wouldn't have become the player I am now.

So you've got a choice Bob. You can continue to complain that people are mislynching you, scumreading you, whatever. You can continue to sell yourself short and say you aren't capable of playing well. Or, you can look around at the better players, try to understand the game, and evolve your own play. Choice is yours.

If you would like to help me, I would welcome the help. If you would like to teach me (without being rude about it), I will happily listen. Otherwise, I'm just going to go through a natural progression curve of working out how to play the game, what works, what doesn't, how to read into things better, etc. My play is evolving, but that doesn't mean I 'm going to get good or look good overnight. It'll take much longer than that.

And what do you know, it turns out that being defensive can actually work. I'm not dead yet. I'm going to play the game how I think I should play it, and that happened to involve defending myself. Heavily. Maybe it was unwise, or there were better options, but I didn't feel like being lynched. And I couldn't think of a better way to stop it. Like I said, happy to listen, happy to learn, but don't expect me to change that quickly.

what a bastion of townyness

[BunnyGo]

ok fine
##Vote bunnygo

Brainbomb was **already** on BunnyGo when he posted this.

This is HIGHLY suspect.

I'm catching up on the thread, but there are two things in this regard:

I found brain's play towards EOD very weird. Slagging Bob for self-defense was technically incorrect and I don't believe brainbomb doesn't know that. Brain then called out that Bob may be a PR. I don't feel there's any good reason to do that as town. I know brainbomb is a wildcard but those two things looked distinctly scummy, not just crazy.

However, the other thing is: I was close to voting Bunny because, an hour and a half before EOD, Bunny re-iterated that he was policy-lynching emc, but he had literally been the very first vote in the game and had camped on emc perpetually (for 46.5 hours or whatever). I thought it was a weird thing to call out at that time, with emc lead wagon and Bunny's vote stale. Now what's really strange, I had to leave EOD to go to an event, but I see Bunny tried to start a damo wagon. So that's really, really interesting and I'll have to look back at Bunny's reasoning.

Not start...Vecna started it.

[Vecna]

(Also brainbomb attempting to roll bunny over to an extra vote looked real bad).

This is a slightly inaccurate description of what he did, but, you are right, it looks very bad. Coupled to his response when questioned about it, it looks very bad indeed.

Does Vecna knowing what he did and why he did necessarily bad?

However I can’t see a scum brain doing that. It’s so blatant, I need to reread his interactions with emc to reach my end conclusion but on gut it seems you’re taking this too far.

Its brainbomb. He DOES do these type of blatant things as scum. He does em as town as well though.

Not saying its what happened (im really 50/50 on it) but ruling it out based on this reasoning is bad. Just like jamiet's reasoning that BB would never do this as town is bad.

[Vecna]

Also, Bob is crushing Squigs in this argument

[foodcoats]

ISO
Some select e.m.c. quotes where is specifically references/assesses another player from the first day (eliminating non-game related mentions and all the role-playing crap). You decide if he's trying for a miss-lynch or bus or whatever maf term you prefer to use.

…

(one of his longer posts)
"to lengthen, Neph has gone near 120 in terms of tone, has upped sarcasm by a lot, and is more jocular this game than he has been, like ever. He's decidedly more confident in himself, and more grounded than usual. More willing to defend thoughts. Posts tend towards the shorter side but that is as usual since his meta evolved from old walls. Unknown if said confidence is due to 1) deliberate roleplay, as tactic - similar to how he did his whole "lhf" schtick before but for different objective, or due to being scum, or due to just being more rooted as town."

A lot of what you quote I would qualify as not terribly indicative of anything, but emc going on about Neph like this IS uncharacteristic of emc for D1 and is almost undoubtedly related to emc being scum. If I were to guess I would think this means that Neph is town, and emc was trying to lay a hedgy base on which to later set up a mislynch of Neph.

[brainbomb]

when I voted emc I didnt really believe it. my vote came after kits.
there was a few minutes of accepting I was driving a ml and the consequences of it. the thought never occurred to me I actually had it right.

[brainbomb]

would like to hear who neph has as his scumreads rn

[BunnyGo]

would like to hear who neph has as his scumreads rn

ME!

[xorxes]

if we all vote hammer in game thread we can learn who scum is cuz they wont wanna do it

Its not like scum couldnt just endvote. All they have to do is decide on a roleblock and a NK.

Both seem like pretty easy choices.

Also, youre fully aware a night has never been hammered in webdip history so this just feels a bit desperate.

Something's wrong when Jamie's response to this makes more sense than Vecna's.

[xorxes]

Also, Bob is crushing Squigs in this argument

That is indeed true.

[rdrivera2005]

This is a slightly inaccurate description of what he did, but, you are right, it looks very bad. Coupled to his response when questioned about it, it looks very bad indeed.

Does Vecna knowing what he did and why he did necessarily bad?

However I can’t see a scum brain doing that. It’s so blatant, I need to reread his interactions with emc to reach my end conclusion but on gut it seems you’re taking this too far.

Its brainbomb. He DOES do these type of blatant things as scum. He does em as town as well though.

Not saying its what happened (im really 50/50 on it) but ruling it out based on this reasoning is bad. Just like jamiet's reasoning that BB would never do this as town is bad.

BB is acting so blatantly scummy that I have a theory, just don't want to disclose it now.

[brainbomb]

#2293 Post by brainbomb » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:01 am

I definitely agree that EMC is a free vote. Everyone inherently dislikes his voting patterns and so where better to park a vote. Perhaps in your first vote with nothing else.



whats this mean neph? free vote

[rdrivera2005]

Also, Bob is crushing Squigs in this argument

Agree. And Bob reads weren't that bad. They were hedgy but didn't feel forced, looked pretty towny to me.

[brainbomb]

Also, why is everyone going so hard into my meta without mentioning the massive change that is foodcoats. This guy is normally one of the more focused but light hearted players here. Now he's just throwing random words out half the time.

one wonders if scum!neph is jealous of scumbuddy foodcoats and decides to shade a partner here