MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[xorxes]

Xorxes, I'll tell you what.

If you want a massclaim, you can say so, and you can explain why you want a massclaim. Then, when you do that, I'll tell you if I agree - and if I don't agree, I'll explain clearly why.

OK.

This is where I started: most PRs can verify themselves, so counterclaims are unlikely, and recruiting them is also risky because they have to be recruited at some point when they can no longer verify themselves.

The worst case scenario after a massclaim would be reaching D5 (after shooting/mislynching 5 VTs, two PRs converted and 6 PRs NKd: 2-3-3-1

That would be the absolute worst case when we were completely incapable of finding a single scum to lynch. At that point Mafia have to kill each other if they don't want to lose.

Of course we may have all lost at this point if the neutral has already won, but that can happen with or without a massclaim, it's basically random depending on who their targets are and there's very little we can do about it other than finding the neutral soon. And with a massclaim the chances of finding the neutral increase.

[e.m.c^42]

Mildly, yes. Encouraging people to speculate about something that may or may not happen and which you may or may not support, in general terms, is a great way to look like you're contributing without actually contributing.

Oh spicy!

lol nah

But there doesn't seem much point to bring up if there aren't benefits? so

I explained the point.

Oh, that is agreement to your logic of poking xorx, but not necessarily anything on thoughts of you :D

[xorxes]

People who want to fill the thread with long-winded mechanics-based discussions to no immediate purpose are often scum, or Bozo.

Do you think my wanting people to consider a massclaim is scum motivated then?

Mildly, yes. Encouraging people to speculate about something that may or may not happen and which you may or may not support, in general terms, is a great way to look like you're contributing without actually contributing.

Nah, it's completely NAI.

[worcej]

Hello

Hello. Get ready for my string of response votes as I get caught up.

[Chaqa]

I'm going to Flavius this game. Pre-read thoughts:

If EMC doesn't vote within the first 24 hours, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Kalel mentions his spreadsheet, I'm policy lynching his ass.

If Vecna and/or xorxes survive past day 4, lynch their asses.

##CALL GM: What happens if Mafia1 and the Reaver target the same player N1? Does the player become a Reaver? Do they die?

Dear Reaver: please do not recruit me. Mafia will kill me early, and even if I was mafia, I would be lynched early, I never make it very far into the game. So if you recruit me it's bad for me and bad for you. Lose-lose. Don't do it. Thank you.

Xorxes is Reaver Prime or on Mafia team 1. EZ game.

##Vote xorxes

[Chaqa]

##CALL GM: What happens if Mafia1 and the Reaver target the same player N1? Does the player become a Reaver? Do they die?

Seems a little early to be worried about those details... unless you've got personal stake in either of those teams. -1

Pushed back on RDR. +1

Very good post from Kalel. He's town.

[worcej]

##VOTE EMC until he casts a f*cking vote.

You beat me on this.

Yet you didn't vote?

[Chaqa]

I know that I claimed I'd try to play differently this game but it seems like too much effort already.

I advise you to try, or you're today's lynch.

Not against this.

[goldfinger0303]

Greetings everyone, glad to be back in this madness. The flavor of this bout is pretty cool. Never did watch the show, sadly, so some of this is lost on me. I am a big history buff on the space race and such, so I'm surprised I never watched it. Must've just split my time between to many others back in the day.

I'm also happy to see peterlund's site has gotten so much more detailed! Wow, I remember making my own vote trackers back in previous rounds and they were such a pain. I guess there's no need for that now?


Also,
##VOTE DARG
Let the man go see his grandkids.

[Chaqa]

Seems a little early to be worried about those details... unless you've got personal stake in either of those teams. -1

Pushed back on RDR. +1

Oh bless, our darlin' spreadsheet stats. If you actually make one share it lol, google sheets is good enough

I'm going to program the first Mafia Bot for this site someday. Maybe PeterL can help me. I wont confirm or deny that I have a new sheet because I was threatened if I brought it up... so I won't bring up (or share) my spreadsheet 4.0 (if it existed, which I'm not confirming).

##Vote Kalel

[goldfinger0303]

Jesus a whole page was written since I started typing that.

[Chaqa]

Dear Reaver: please do not recruit me. Mafia will kill me early, and even if I was mafia, I would be lynched early, I never make it very far into the game. So if you recruit me it's bad for me and bad for you. Lose-lose. Don't do it. Thank you.

Dear Reaver; do recruit me. I really want to find out what potentially ridiculous press restrictions there are, and how to bullshit 'em

This is town EMC.

[worcej]

And now my ride is here to take me home from work... my comments/catching up later when they are working on my truck.

[Chaqa]

So, does anyone have a good argument why we should not massclaim?

"I opposse massclaims on principle" is not a good argument.

There are obviously some drawbacks, but with so few VTs in play a massclaim should always be a consideration.

I do think it's a valid strategy from a game theory perspective, but it is quite anti-spirit of the game in some ways. That said, there's no clear mechanical drawback to a massclaim in this setup.

[Chaqa]

Don't think we've played with peter or teac in a while, haven't personally played with gold before iirc, and perstition is noob, so looking forwards to seeing them play.

The great expectations are lumped upon Teac this game, his time should be open for the good ol' textwalls that I miss, due to holiday breaks :D

I recall peterlund and teacon both being excellent posters, though peter was a bit of a lurker as scum if I recall correctly...

goldie, hell if I know, I forget.

[ND]

Reading the set-up, I got the impression that the power of the Twins is anti-town if used.

If Mafia 1 attempts to kill X and Y dies instead, they can conclude that X is a Twin (a less valuable "vanilla" type of town role). This allows them to look for more powerful town roles in other players, since they know that X is merely a Twin. So twins please don't use the impersonating power. I cannot see any good reason to ever use that power since it does not seem to give any good value to town.

Look at all this lovely mechanic talk!

[Chaqa]

What's up with you and vekna?

It's beneficial to build up a meta/reputation of "Vecna-fanboy", heh

But sue me, I like his type of play

ND clearly drinks the Vecna Kool-Aid (this saying should really be Flavor-Aid, though) as seen last game. Personally, I find Vecna to be a net negative on the town in almost all situations.

[goldfinger0303]

Reading the set-up, I got the impression that the power of the Twins is anti-town if used.

If Mafia 1 attempts to kill X and Y dies instead, they can conclude that X is a Twin (a less valuable "vanilla" type of town role). This allows them to look for more powerful town roles in other players, since they know that X is merely a Twin. So twins please don't use the impersonating power. I cannot see any good reason to ever use that power since it does not seem to give any good value to town.

See, I get the opposite impression. I think that if the...what was the role, friendly businessman?, looks at a twin while they're impersonating, they can town clear two people at once. That's very valuable. And later on in the game, they're a 2-for-1 protect from the doctor. It requires a little skill to use them, and hope that one isn't taken out early on, but I wouldn't say that they're anti-town.

[ND]

@Xorxes now is probably not the best time for a mass claim LOL. That's cute though.

[ND]

People who want to fill the thread with long-winded mechanics-based discussions to no immediate purpose are often scum, or Bozo.

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