Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[yavuzovic]

I'm here. I just can't find anything to claim.

[Rjmcf]

3) The whole question of why he rearranged the order of his scumreads is iffy to me, but his whole reaction to that pressure struck me as off.

(3) YOU NEED TO HAVE A SCUM THEORY FOR WHY HE DID A THING THAT IS ONE OF THREE BULLET POINTS ON YOUR BULLET POINTED LIST! Weighing Scum Motivation versus Town Motivation is just about the most important thing you can do.

You seem to be interpreting Fox’s third point as “he’s scum because he reordered his reads”. But that’s not what he’s saying. The third point is “he’s scum because he reacted to the pressure in a way that scum would”. I’m starting to wonder if consistent bad reading comprehension is scum indicative, because it just muddys the waters so much and gets everyone else confused.

@RJ, why are you voting Tom? Three bullet points please.

I voted Tom because brain laid out a decent case. The most salient points to me are:

1). Tom isn’t trying to find reasons why his scumreads might be town, and “Scum just wanna drive confused people onto who looks scummiest and give no reasons to doubt why they are scummy. Theyll never try to find reasons why their choices could be town.”
2). His “would shoot” list is opportunistic.
3). His scumread list and thus targets for pressure is really not ambitious at all, as brain said “low hanging fruit”. It’s difficult for me to make this argument cleanly because I’m one of them fruit, but it helped sway me.

[rdrivera2005]

At this point the main wagons are Tom, ND and Ezio.

My vote on Ezio is based mainly on gut feeling and lurker pressuring, so I decided to take another look.

I have done a full reread on Tom and I am not convinced he is the best lynch. I still find his irritation with Brain forced, but the others evidences presented doesn't seem to hold. Tom played the best scum game I have seen some games ago and he was consistent and logical all time. This game he had been a lot more relaxed and even lazy at some points.

I also read EOD1 again and I don't believe ND is scum, Balki already quoted that message that I can't see a scum ND writing. So I am staying with my vote.

@Balki - Interesting you strongly town read Reedeer for his EOD (voted Ezio with 14 minutes to go, distancing from the main wagons and a last minute vote on Jamiet) and not me that voted Jamiet before him (and before seeing your vote on ND). Care to explain why?

[Tom Bombadil]

##vote rjmcf

I can't vote for someone just coming in as a sub - it seems cruel. rj's been on my radar since his reaction to Jamie's lynch. Will try to expand on this this afternoon.

[brainbomb]

I really like Tom. He is my friend. I dont wanna lynch my friend. :/

[thamrick]

So basically I'm interpreting D1 from a "what didn't Jamie do perspective" - I realized that I'm reading into a narrative here, but there's a lot of weirdness in the Jamiet-Yavuz connection

Jamiet stayed away from the RHK/TomBalki interaction - kind of weird since Jamiet's D1 platform was anti-stalker. Would've been an easy way to stir the pot since this was already a big to-do about nothing

Jamiet asks Yav why he thinks BB is scum. Yav had already voted then moved off ND and had pushed BB as doubting the GS claim. Seems like a softball question to get Yav more involved and spread the BB doubt. He also completed ignored the "want to avoid ND's wrath" part of the Yav post. That line was weird. Town Jamiet would have pushed on that. Scum Jamiet that wanted to cast Yav as scum would've pushed on that. I find it weird he didn't.

Jamiet didn't respond to Yav's response about why BB is scum. His next post was this (line spaces deleted for brevity):

Does PR mean role?

I don't know.

What does mean guest? Do people who's not registered follow this game?

Here's some of the shorthand we use translated for new players:

PR = Power Role
CC = Counter Claim
Iso = Isolation - reading one player's posts in isolation while analysing them
LyLo = Lynch or Lose - when the game has reached the point that if we do not successfuly lynch a scum on the current day, we will lose.
NK = Night Kill
VT = Vanilla Townie

"Guest" is the system telling us that there's someone looking at the forum, but who is not logged in.

Someone was talking earlier about Jamiet possibly coaching Rj by responding to his shorthand question, but to me it looks like he was really answering Yav.

I posted something questioning Yav's erratic behavior, then the next post Jamiet directly addresses me, asking my thoughts on BB's claim and on ND. I found the ND ask weird, as ND hadn't contributed much, if anything at that point. It's possible Jamiet was trying to redirect my attention.

Jamiet makes a very weak swipe at Yav for his "rdrivera save us" comment. It came across as very insincere.

More discussion between RHK and I about Yav's weird ND's wrath comment. Jamiet responds to my original response to him, but doesn't address the Yav business at all which I had mentioned in my response.

Brainbomb votes Yav. Jamiet's next post he's back to attacking BB about the shoot list symbols.

Brain and Yav have a little back and forth then Jamiet posts:

@@VOTE YaVuZoViC

Why do the weird capitalization? That doesn't seem like Jamiet to me.

Regardless, Jamiet never commented about the arguments being made against Yav.

Jamiet disappears for a while. When he returns, there are some notable things I see that he does not mention that had happened in that time:

-reedeer's vague reads
-Brain had declared Yav "clear town"
-the rjmcf defense rant of MLQ

Jamiet didn't do much the rest of D1. I find it very weird that Jamiet stayed far away from the Yav discussions (yet still threw a vote on Yav in there), and the rjmcf diatribe (he did say a vague rjmcf is looking scummy, but didn't press it).

Jamiet was lynched for not being his usual aggressive self. He didn't bite on either of these opportunities to stir the pot. He spent a majority of D1 either voting for lurkers or belittling everything Brain was doing, yet didn't find anything in Brain's response to rjmcf or in his town clearing Yav worth attacking?

[yavuzovic]

About Mean:
I think her behaviours were towns like. However I have no reason so I can't read her as town or scum. If Brain claims she's town, he must show us why.

@brainbomb
Also can you prove your claim?

@brainbomb ^

[yavuzovic]

Ah, this really old sorry

[Tom Bombadil]

@yav: Why are you voting ND?

[Tom Bombadil]

@ Balki: What do you make of Foxy's point regarding Mean posted below?

"I'm town reading Mean. In her P52 summary of everything, she says a couple things that I don't think scum coming off a night in the Mafia QT would say.

In reading ND, she says "He scum read snowy throughout the game, and that’s an odd thing to do if you’re planning on killing him at night when you’re the only person who has voted for him"

In reading Rjm, "He also scumread snowy in his reads at the end of night, which is a really odd thing to do if he knew he was going to die."

Scum don't go into the Mafia QT knowing who they will kill. If Mean were scum, she would have just spent 24 hours in the Mafia QT and would know that even if there's general consensus, scum don't go in knowing how the discussion will come out. So I see those as town slips, defaulting to how she understands the game is usually played face-to-face because she didn't go to the Mafia QT."

[yavuzovic]

@yav: Why are you voting ND?

I will find why, I have shared it.

[Tom Bombadil]

"I will find why, I have shared it."

You can't remember why and just tell me? You have to look back and find why you voted ND?

[yavuzovic]

ND (slight scum): Let's turn D1 last posts and think from his eyes. There's two odds:
1)Town ND: I have claimed that snowy is scum but it's hard to lynch him in this situation. I should vote one of these guys, balki or jamiet (because third suspect is himself.). I told "I don't think Balki is scum. I'm not going to vote for him." and I voted for Jamiet.
2)Scum ND: My wagon was consisting of three vote and I voted for snowy. But next hours I thought we can't lynch snowy. Maybe I should vote for Jamiet99uk, he's going to be lynched and when he will be lynched his voters might repel some suspicion. I can hide myself with this. (Because he voted for Jamiet99uk before most of us)

Yes, I forgot why did I do.

[yavuzovic]

Also:

@brainbomb
Who do you suggest? And why? You may change my idea.
[/quo

[Tom Bombadil]

Why do you think the second (scum) scenario for ND is more likely than the first (town scenario)?

[yavuzovic]

I mean I mark him as Slight scum. If you show me your proven ideas, I would vote anyone else.

[yavuzovic]

Dargorygel is an alternative victim for me - He's lurking since the game started.

[thamrick]

Dargorygel is an alternative victim for me - He's lurking since the game started.

You mean CaptainMeme now? You saw darg was replaced right?

[Rjmcf]

Dargorygel is an alternative victim for me - He's lurking since the game started.

He has since been subbed and we haven't heard from meme yet, so a lurker is replaced with another lurker. I know even less about meme's play style, but subbing into a town player, wouldn't you want to start asking questions, wouldn't you want to see what headway you could make in solving the problem?

Subbing into a scum player on the other hand, wouldn't you feel bad if you slipped and ended up getting your guy lynched? I can see the pressure to hang back more in this case.

Maybe this is all too meta and/or WIFOM, but I'm scumleaning darg even more heavily now.

[Tom Bombadil]

meme has a pretty lurky reputation, so I wouldn't read too much into that.