M50 Apocalypse Meme Redux

[Squigs44]

I thought we were going to leave how dumb you can be in the past

Mass claiming is being discussed, Kalel suggested another idea, and I suggested a modification of Kalel' s idea. Instead of participating in any of these discussions, you implied that you were not going to contribute to day 1.

No, I reaction tested and damo waltzed right in.

See, the problem with this Bo is that what you did is a perfectly valid low effort mafia strategy. You make two posts and leave. If people ignore you, you're all good. If someone votes you, you vote them back with a "gotcha" and call it a successful reaction test. It requires no analysis or effort on your part Bo. I feel like the only effort you have put in is to tell people why their plans suck (which they might), but you still haven't solved yet.

[bo_sox48]

Manipulating the daytime roles into picking from a pool of certain players allows the mafia to interfere in what would otherwise be a 100% town-driven process since our daytime town PRs are, obviously, town. Of course they're going to miss more often than they hit. All that takes is simple division to recognize that under 50% of the players in this game are mafia, and thus more than 50% of the players targetable are town. I don't know if you're good at this game or not, but either way <a>I don't think you're being genuine if you think that your experience in M49 is the end-all-be-all for the usage of town PRs with daytime actions.

I don't have a plan because as I so eloquently stated before, I don't care much for a discussion on the mechanics. Likewise, while I freely admit that narrowing the pool for the daytime PRs may make the likelihood of a counterclaim or of them simply hitting mafia greater, I also don't think that we should manipulate them, and thus, I'm not proposing a plan. <b> Sorry if that upsets you.

Bozo's plan is bad, albeit perhaps not invalid. But it's still bad.

As above, the only way that bozo's plan has any shot at working is if <c>a) we pick the point at which these claims happen for a reason, not because the clock has changed, and <d>b) more than one person claims (and I would argue at least five, as that seems to me a fair number where the validity of said claims may come into question for one or two claimants, thus narrowing our pool for today and for later).

Bolding and <> brackets in the above is mine, for reference.

a - I don't think that at all! I certainly still consider myself a newbie with a lot to learn. I did rather well in M49 but a lot of that was luck and it's largely been other people who've insisted I showed more skill than I really feel I had. In M49 the power roles that town had during the day were used poorly or unluckily and directly assisted mafia in winning. I have not played any other game and have no experience with any other game of forum mafia than M49 and a brief spell in the first draft of M50, and certainly defer to your experience there.

b - I'm not upset. Thank you for elaborating, I respect your views and am rarely bothered by people disagreeing with me. I try to take their new information on board and sometimes that changes my position. Not as yet in this case, but we have time.

c - Good idea. I don't yet have a better way to trigger a set of claims other than "we're getting close to EoD" and I feel giving everyone a chance to discuss claims and possibly use their day powers means we shouldn't leave this to the last minute, but I have no objection to any time we do this thing that's more than, say, three hours out from the adjudication. Noting that I'm on Australian time and adjudication is 9am my time, and I am typically not especially coherent between midnight and five although I can be around for special occasions.

d - This is also a good idea. Picking five people by the top five scum reads (if most of them aren't simply a 1-vote draw as they are now) or some other means decided by consensus would give us more information without wholly throwing the town open to assassination. I could ask "why five? why not three? why not seven?" but I'm happy with five and would support this modification if we can agree on how they're determined.

In M49 (yes I know. Shush, it's all I have to go on) I found that bozo was pushing a plan I didn't entirely agree with and seemed to push it despite attempts to distract him into doing something else. As a result and developing my town hunting techniques I voted to lynch him on Day 1 and he flipped town.

This is consistent with his meta here. It's a flawed plan, but I believe it's a genuine one and I don't have a better alternative yet. In any case, I do believe he's sincere and I feel this gets us more information than we lose - both in Day 1 and giving us information to review later.

Using the massive quote to keep your references.

A few things:

1.) I don't want you to defer to my experience. I want you to think for yourself. If I'm wrong, let's hash it out.

2.) There are certain behaviors that we should all be adapting to when we get close to EOD if we want an effective lynch that forces the mafia team to make up their minds on the set of players we collectively want. Having a chance to discuss players' claims isn't all that important considering we basically all have one, and players with day powers are more than welcome to use their day powers as they see fit. The only thing making a plan that waits until near EOD, or making a plan far out from EOD, does is allow the mafia to make better plans for how they're going to play the end of the day.

3.) The number 5 was mostly arbitrary and I don't want it to end up being the plan we make. It was more of an example of something theoretically better. In reality, I think the better way to go about this may be to expect someone to claim when they reach a certain number of votes so that we don't have people with 2 or 3 votes on them being forced to claim when there isn't any major traction against them.

4.) Everything bozo has done matches his town meta as I see it as well, unfortunately.

[bo_sox48]

Mass claiming is being discussed, Kalel suggested another idea, and I suggested a modification of Kalel' s idea. Instead of participating in any of these discussions, you implied that you were not going to contribute to day 1.

No, I reaction tested and damo waltzed right in.

See, the problem with this Bo is that what you did is a perfectly valid low effort mafia strategy. You make two posts and leave. If people ignore you, you're all good. If someone votes you, you vote them back with a "gotcha" and call it a successful reaction test. It requires no analysis or effort on your part Bo. I feel like the only effort you have put in is to tell people why their plans suck (which they might), but you still haven't solved yet.

Lol, no. I didn't make two posts and leave. I made two posts and made a third saying I was leaving without ever leaving. Who in the fucking hell would announce that they're playing a classic scum lurker strategy on day 1?

We've been here for three hours. What do you expect me to solve, oh sage?

[bo_sox48]

Vapor what happened to you? Did you role scum again and you're afraid to out yourself again? You're much too quiet this game.

Here you're attacking someone for not being active enough for your tastes in the first three hours of the game while there are six non-posters and two players who have posted but have done so fewer times than Vapor. Yet you're calling my play low effort.

[TrPrado]

Mass claiming is being discussed, Kalel suggested another idea, and I suggested a modification of Kalel' s idea. Instead of participating in any of these discussions, you implied that you were not going to contribute to day 1.

No, I reaction tested and damo waltzed right in.

See, the problem with this Bo is that what you did is a perfectly valid low effort mafia strategy. You make two posts and leave. If people ignore you, you're all good. If someone votes you, you vote them back with a "gotcha" and call it a successful reaction test. It requires no analysis or effort on your part Bo. I feel like the only effort you have put in is to tell people why their plans suck (which they might), but you still haven't solved yet.

Eh, early game reaction tests are weird. I think the premise he's operating on is perfectly fine. What was it Vecna did that one time, posted nothing but SQUAWK for D1 and then performed well for the rest of his time in the game?

I would however argue that bo did kinda jump the gun after letting only 2 people actually react to his post in the first couple hours of the game.

[TrPrado]

Speaking of which:

bo, why DID you cut off your reaction test so quickly?

[Squigs44]

No, I reaction tested and damo waltzed right in.

See, the problem with this Bo is that what you did is a perfectly valid low effort mafia strategy. You make two posts and leave. If people ignore you, you're all good. If someone votes you, you vote them back with a "gotcha" and call it a successful reaction test. It requires no analysis or effort on your part Bo. I feel like the only effort you have put in is to tell people why their plans suck (which they might), but you still haven't solved yet.

Lol, no. I didn't make two posts and leave. I made two posts and made a third saying I was leaving without ever leaving. Who in the fucking hell would announce that they're playing a classic scum lurker strategy on day 1?

We've been here for three hours. What do you expect me to solve, oh sage?

I dont expect you to solve the whole game, but I do expect you to comment on what people have done and why you think its alignment indicative other than "he fell for my ridiculous reaction test"

[BunnyGo]

@Bob: Dargorygel asked Squigs a question.

Why did you answer it?

Because it was correct. Squigs' vote was not a serious one, like all votes made in the first 2 hours.

FTFY

what does this mean?

[Squigs44]

Vapor what happened to you? Did you role scum again and you're afraid to out yourself again? You're much too quiet this game.

Here you're attacking someone for not being active enough for your tastes in the first three hours of the game while there are six non-posters and two players who have posted but have done so fewer times than Vapor. Yet you're calling my play low effort.

It's not that Vapor is low posting - I'm not calling him out for lurking. Maybe the word quiet misled you here. I meant quiet in that his posts were cautious and timid (hence why I said afraid) as opposed to the usual Vapor that makes frankly ridiculous posts sometimes.

[bo_sox48]

See, the problem with this Bo is that what you did is a perfectly valid low effort mafia strategy. You make two posts and leave. If people ignore you, you're all good. If someone votes you, you vote them back with a "gotcha" and call it a successful reaction test. It requires no analysis or effort on your part Bo. I feel like the only effort you have put in is to tell people why their plans suck (which they might), but you still haven't solved yet.

Lol, no. I didn't make two posts and leave. I made two posts and made a third saying I was leaving without ever leaving. Who in the fucking hell would announce that they're playing a classic scum lurker strategy on day 1?

We've been here for three hours. What do you expect me to solve, oh sage?

I dont expect you to solve the whole game, but I do expect you to comment on what people have done and why you think its alignment indicative other than "he fell for my ridiculous reaction test"

Jamie asked nicely what I got out of the reaction test as opposed to jumping to an uninformed and perhaps biased conclusion. I therefore laid out the rationale behind my ridiculous reaction test and further independent evidence supporting the conclusion drawn from my ridiculous reaction test as well. You'd do well to read it.

[bo_sox48]

Speaking of which:

bo, why DID you cut off your reaction test so quickly?

What good does it do if I let it sit? Damo was online, asking to be grilled. I was online, sitting in wait. Let er rip.

[dargorygel]

This is town bosox. Sitting in his self appointed professor chair. Stepping on a few toes. But mostly follow through. He's not pretending to play. Even if he is making poor choices about television. His push hard on damo seemed legit to me.

What did you think, damo?

[TrPrado]

Speaking of which:

bo, why DID you cut off your reaction test so quickly?

What good does it do if I let it sit? Damo was online, asking to be grilled. I was online, sitting in wait. Let er rip.

I suppose it's a personal preference thing. I generally feel like the best results to early game reaction tests come from letting it sit for a certain amount of time. I definitely got more of just an annoyed vibe from damo's response to it.

[BionicMole]

Hello Hello, I am definitely going to throw down the noob card. The only experience I have is in M50 1.0. but I do find myself reading about massclaims again. I have read all the arguments for and against and have considered the alteration of having only the vote leader (or 5) claim their rolls. I'm still trying to iron out how I feel about it.

[FlaviusAetius]

For reals though the 5th mafia this game changes the dynamics a bit. 13 town, 5 mafia, and 3 3rd partys, ouch. Massclaiming has become less attractive, especially if things go south with the newly revised assassin or other 3ps.

Agreed, mas claim is not worth it, UNLESS we have Omniscient

[dargorygel]

Hello Hello, I am definitely going to throw down the noob card. The only experience I have is in M50 1.0. but I do find myself reading about massclaims again. I have read all the arguments for and against and have considered the alteration of having only the vote leader (or 5) claim their rolls. I'm still trying to iron out how I feel about it.

Do you think that scum and 3rd parties might try to influence that situation? Particularly if we have a lot of wagons, like we do right now?

Welcome, btw... What do you think so far? Beyond the silly force reveal this early?

[Ezio]

BTW, bo/damo feels like a TvS fight, I cannot surely point out who is who though...

I find it odd you say TvS fight with so many third party roles in the game, unless you're confident you can tell the difference between town interacting with third party and scum interacting with third party. It would make much more sense to say "two people not on the same team" here, as mafia would interact with a third party character exactly the same way .

[BunnyGo]

Hello Hello, I am definitely going to throw down the noob card. The only experience I have is in M50 1.0. but I do find myself reading about massclaims again. I have read all the arguments for and against and have considered the alteration of having only the vote leader (or 5) claim their rolls. I'm still trying to iron out how I feel about it.

Have you considered the part where the assassin wins by doing a mass claim?

[Ezio]

Also everyone, I'm making an Ezio hardclaim(tm). Xorxes is town.

[bo_sox48]

BTW, bo/damo feels like a TvS fight, I cannot surely point out who is who though...

I find it odd you say TvS fight with so many third party roles in the game, unless you're confident you can tell the difference between town interacting with third party and scum interacting with third party. It would make much more sense to say "two people not on the same team" here, as mafia would interact with a third party character exactly the same way .

That's interesting, because I thought this could actually be a townslip. Mafia would be reading this kind of a setup with a fine toothed comb, whereas I wouldn't necessarily expect a town player to be so thorough with the setup as much as I would expect them to know their own role.