Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

[damo666]

@rd: are you in love, in revenge or just plain scum? Because if you are in love with someone there may be more targets for you out there than me.

If rdr is town it can only be grudge or sleeper cell otherwise he wouldn't have fingered yuuki (unless scumteam is EYZ and I've been totally hoodwinked by I very very much doubt that).

[damo666]

*but not 'by'

[bozotheclown]

It's looking like scum's last chance is to push the narrative lof a tie. Behold, the propaganda machine at work.

If there is a tie scum wins, from the signup thread:

"As e.m.c said, the only lynch determines the winner. In the original game, mafia wins when its tied, but I'm planning to give an extra day if it is tied."

Why would there be a scenario literally built into the set up where one side can autowin?

A tied lynch vote usually means a win for mafia since they can night kill and lynch the next day. Since there in no night kill mechanism here, I would say that a tied lynch vote just means a tie game. If we have an extra day, I assume it will just be tied again. There is nothing in the rules post about a tie lynch being a win for mafia, so I would consider anything about it in the sign up thread unofficial. During the sign up I believe the final distribution of 5-3 was not guaranteed.

However, I did notice when I read the setup that there was a possibility that the best town could do was draw, if rdrivera started as town and ended as mafia, or started as town and ended up needing to lynch a town to win. I think this is exactly what we ended up with.

[bozotheclown]

votes for Espresso target:
bozo: damo
damo: damo
rdrivera: damo
yuuki: damo
brainbomb: RagingIke
RagingIke: damo

I think it was fairly obvious to the entire town what was going on when this was the vote before phase 3 started. Not only were brainbomb, xorxes, and Espresso the only ones who were against Espresso confessing to damo, they were also the only ones who did not want Ike to confess to me. With xorxes not confessing to damo, Espresso reporting xorxes as town, and brainbomb showing no interest in the game, everyone made the logical conclusion.

I learned that rivera was loyal to the agency whatever tf that means

Bah, nothing new. I really hope I didn't get to change side as it seems an easy town win.

I think rdrivera was confirming he had the same conclusion here, but unfortunately it appears his wincon has changed.

[damo666]

Agreed. Scum is BEX but rdr's unlucky Hidden Agenda assignment prevents an outright victory.

However I claim a moral victory for town.

[bozotheclown]

I also think that yuuki is correct about xorxes communicating with his teammates with things like this:

If EP confesses to damo, there are two possible results:

damo says he is town, which gives us E->D, or damo says he is mafia, which doesn't strictly gives us any info, but makes E->~D most likely (because it's unlikely but not impossible that scum!damo would say scum!EP is mafia).

So in case one we reduce it to 9 possibilities:

BDY
BIR
BIY
BRY
BYZ
DEY
DIY
DYZ
IYZ

In case 2, we still have 17, but with one unlikely one, so almost 16:

BDY
BEI
BER
BEX
BEY
BIR
BIY
BRY
BYZ
(DEY)
DIY
DYZ
EIX
EIY
EXY
EYZ
IYZ

[yavuzovic]

It's looking like scum's last chance is to push the narrative of a tie. Behold, the propaganda machine at work.

If there is a tie scum wins, from the signup thread:

"As e.m.c said, the only lynch determines the winner. In the original game, mafia wins when its tied, but I'm planning to give an extra day if it is tied."

That's not correct. Allowing the scum win if town achieves their purpose (catching scum) would not be fair.

[damo666]

It's looking like scum's last chance is to push the narrative of a tie. Behold, the propaganda machine at work.

If there is a tie scum wins, from the signup thread:

"As e.m.c said, the only lynch determines the winner. In the original game, mafia wins when its tied, but I'm planning to give an extra day if it is tied."

That's not correct. Allowing the scum win if town achieves their purpose (catching scum) would not be fair.

I guess a tie is better than nothing

[xorxes]

I also think that yuuki is correct about xorxes communicating with his teammates with things like this:

If EP confesses to damo, there are two possible results:

damo says he is town, which gives us E->D, or damo says he is mafia, which doesn't strictly gives us any info, but makes E->~D most likely (because it's unlikely but not impossible that scum!damo would say scum!EP is mafia).

So in case one we reduce it to 9 possibilities:

BDY
BIR
BIY
BRY
BYZ
DEY
DIY
DYZ
IYZ

In case 2, we still have 17, but with one unlikely one, so almost 16:

BDY
BEI
BER
BEX
BEY
BIR
BIY
BRY
BYZ
(DEY)
DIY
DYZ
EIX
EIY
EXY
EYZ
IYZ

Are you serious? What nefarious thing could I be communicating by just stating the facts?

[yuuki]

@rd: are you in love, in revenge or just plain scum? Because if you are in love with someone there may be more targets for you out there than me.

If rdr is town it can only be grudge or sleeper cell otherwise he wouldn't have fingered yuuki (unless scumteam is EYZ and I've been totally hoodwinked by I very very much doubt that).

Well, I'm the only one who fellow townies could legitimately doubt so I would be the obvious target even if he joined the scum team or fell in love. Though I do agree it seems like spite.

[yuuki]

I'm town, but I don't know whether you are town or not. People are jumping to all sorts of unwarranted conclusions from the data we have.

If you are town are you committed to vote with Ike who is guaranteed town?

Only if Ike votes for someone I consider scum, obviously. He is the one with the least amount of info, so just because he is clear it doesn't mean he has all the answers. You claiming that you would vote for yourself if Ike votes for you is just ridiculous.

lol you are such a terrible scum player

[yuuki]

I also think that yuuki is correct about xorxes communicating with his teammates with things like this:

If EP confesses to damo, there are two possible results:

damo says he is town, which gives us E->D, or damo says he is mafia, which doesn't strictly gives us any info, but makes E->~D most likely (because it's unlikely but not impossible that scum!damo would say scum!EP is mafia).

So in case one we reduce it to 9 possibilities:

BDY
BIR
BIY
BRY
BYZ
DEY
DIY
DYZ
IYZ

In case 2, we still have 17, but with one unlikely one, so almost 16:

BDY
BEI
BER
BEX
BEY
BIR
BIY
BRY
BYZ
(DEY)
DIY
DYZ
EIX
EIY
EXY
EYZ
IYZ

Are you serious? What nefarious thing could I be communicating by just stating the facts?

you were basically saying it's ok to confess to damo because even if he reveals you are scum there are still plenty of possibilities and it will be easy to lie

[yuuki]

If there is a tie scum wins, from the signup thread:

"As e.m.c said, the only lynch determines the winner. In the original game, mafia wins when its tied, but I'm planning to give an extra day if it is tied."

That's not correct. Allowing the scum win if town achieves their purpose (catching scum) would not be fair.

I guess a tie is better than nothing

we should get bonus points for figuring out the entire scum team before voting phase :D

[damo666]

I'm hoping Bozo gets BX or EX but boringly he's bound to get BI or EI. Just watch.

[xorxes]

@rd: are you in love, in revenge or just plain scum? Because if you are in love with someone there may be more targets for you out there than me.

If rdr is town it can only be grudge or sleeper cell otherwise he wouldn't have fingered yuuki (unless scumteam is EYZ and I've been totally hoodwinked by I very very much doubt that).

He could be either alignment and in love with Espresso or with brain, in which case it makes perfect sense to finger yuuki. That would tell us nothing about yuuki/bb/EP alignment.

He could be either alignment with grudge against yuuki. That would tell us nothing about yuuki alignment.

He could be town with tip about yuuki. That would mean yuuki is scum.

He could be scum with tip about anyone. That would mean yuuki is town.

Those are the obvious options.

He could be town that turned into scum and believes yuuki is town. That would be risky, because he could not be certain that yuuki was town.

He could not be scum turned into town because that would mean yuuki is scum but there is no possibility left with yuuki and rivera as original scum together.

Finally, he could be either alignment trying to get himself lynched, but this doesn't seem likely either, although it's hard to see what else he could have done if that's what his win condition required.

[xorxes]

I also think that yuuki is correct about xorxes communicating with his teammates with things like this:

Are you serious? What nefarious thing could I be communicating by just stating the facts?

you were basically saying it's ok to confess to damo because even if he reveals you are scum there are still plenty of possibilities and it will be easy to lie

Why would I need to say that? And if I wanted him to confess to damo, why not just vote for damo instead of being cryptic? Are you admitting that scum wanted EP to confess to damo?

[xorxes]

I'm hoping Bozo gets BX or EX but boringly he's bound to get BI or EI. Just watch.

yuuki would probably say you are instructing bozo what to claim, if he wasn't already committed to you being town.

[yuuki]

Are you serious? What nefarious thing could I be communicating by just stating the facts?

you were basically saying it's ok to confess to damo because even if he reveals you are scum there are still plenty of possibilities and it will be easy to lie

Why would I need to say that? And if I wanted him to confess to damo, why not just vote for damo instead of being cryptic? Are you admitting that scum wanted EP to confess to damo?

No, I'm saying you were coaching him by letting him know indirectly that confessing to damo was more acceptable than going against the vote.

[yuuki]

I'm hoping Bozo gets BX or EX but boringly he's bound to get BI or EI. Just watch.

yuuki would probably say you are instructing bozo what to claim, if he wasn't already committed to you being town.

'committed'? you are hilarious

[EspressoPatronum]

I also think that yuuki is correct about xorxes communicating with his teammates with things like this:

Are you serious? What nefarious thing could I be communicating by just stating the facts?

you were basically saying it's ok to confess to damo because even if he reveals you are scum there are still plenty of possibilities and it will be easy to lie

You're mischaracterizing things again. Xorxes posted lists on all of the leading confession targets. If you'll recall, he ultimately advocated for himself to be the target.