Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[Tom Bombadil]

Again - poor play is not scummy.

I truly think darg panicked and counterclaimed

Also, regarding Chaqa - we still need to consider cow scenario. If scum was given lover as a fake role, cow (if in play) would almost certainly claim that role as they are the most likely to get lynched for the mathematical reason and thus more likely to have a near consensus wagon. (I do not think Chaqa is mafia, but this needs to be considered)

[worcej]

Fundamentally, it's this:

1. Focus on Darg/EP - Get it right. Possibly lose 2 town tonight. It's either 8-4 or 7-4 on D5.
2. Focus on Darg/EP - Get it wrong. Possibly lose 2 town tonight. It's either 7-5 or 6-5 on D5. TOWN LOSES IF HUMAN IS IN THE GAME (above 70% chance their team has the human).
3. Take Chaqa out now. Town dies on NK - it's either 7-5 or 8-4 with Darg/EP available to figure out on D5.

We get more information for the game if we settle Chaqa now before putting the game on the line with Darg/EP.

[Tom Bombadil]

I need to sleep. I’ll circle back on this in the morning

[Tom Bombadil]

I’m aware of the math, yes.

[worcej]

Again - poor play is not scummy.

I truly think darg panicked and counterclaimed

Also, regarding Chaqa - we still need to consider cow scenario. If scum was given lover as a fake role, cow (if in play) would almost certainly claim that role as they are the most likely to get lynched for the mathematical reason and thus more likely to have a near consensus wagon. (I do not think Chaqa is mafia, but this needs to be considered)

Cow still requires a scum to die. If he is scum and cow, then D5 is now 7-4. Still better than not addressing it.

[EspressoPatronum]

@worcej, I think I figured out my reluctance to join you. What you're saying makes sense, but the way you're saying it makes it anti-persuasive. Slinging insults and GOING ALL CAPS isn't doing you any favours. I get that you're frustrated, but that doesn't make you more persuasive. I'm also frustrated at this counterclaim business (as I thought my D4 was going to be pretty easy tbh), but now I'm stuck in the thick of it. It also doesn't help your case that I think you're scummy. I actually think if anyone else but you were leading this Chaqa lynch, I'd be less reluctant to get on board.

Regarding my decision to push darg, it's obvious fmpv (though I appreciate it isn't from anyone else's pov). I have 100% confirmation that darg is scum - whether you believe me or not doesn't rly matter - so I should always try to make sure he dies. While lynching Chaqa has its benefits, it's not a 100% guarantee that his lynch benefits town. In some cases, as you've correctly raised, it can be terrible for town if Chaqa doesn't die today. In other cases, it's not amazing for town, but it's not game-ending right away. Uncertainty and chance are all factors there, so I am more hesitant to take them because I have a 100% scum kill in my sights. For that reason, I'm putting Chaqa right behind darg in my lynch order.

That being said, if we're intent on lynching Chaqa, he should reveal his lover target. More information in the decision will help. BEFORE he does this, however, town clears should weigh in and support/shut down the idea. You can't know if it's coming from a town perspective if you're not positive I'm town.

[worcej]

I’m aware of the math, yes.

I get you get it, but the other town need to understand this.

The odds of darg/EP being right or wrong is fundamentally 50%. One of them is scum for sure (maybe both).

Are you willing to gamble on them getting Chaqa's lover and win now? We can get more information for the same lynch on D5 by removing Chaqa now before he is used as a liability for us to lose.

[EspressoPatronum]

Would Chaqa be a sensible cow target?

[worcej]

@worcej, I think I figured out my reluctance to join you. What you're saying makes sense, but the way you're saying it makes it anti-persuasive. Slinging insults and GOING ALL CAPS isn't doing you any favours. I get that you're frustrated, but that doesn't make you more persuasive. I'm also frustrated at this counterclaim business (as I thought my D4 was going to be pretty easy tbh), but now I'm stuck in the thick of it. It also doesn't help your case that I think you're scummy. I actually think if anyone else but you were leading this Chaqa lynch, I'd be less reluctant to get on board.

Regarding my decision to push darg, it's obvious fmpv (though I appreciate it isn't from anyone else's pov). I have 100% confirmation that darg is scum - whether you believe me or not doesn't rly matter - so I should always try to make sure he dies. While lynching Chaqa has its benefits, it's not a 100% guarantee that his lynch benefits town. In some cases, as you've correctly raised, it can be terrible for town if Chaqa doesn't die today. In other cases, it's not amazing for town, but it's not game-ending right away. Uncertainty and chance are all factors there, so I am more hesitant to take them because I have a 100% scum kill in my sights. For that reason, I'm putting Chaqa right behind darg in my lynch order.

That being said, if we're intent on lynching Chaqa, he should reveal his lover target. More information in the decision will help. BEFORE he does this, however, town clears should weigh in and support/shut down the idea. You can't know if it's coming from a town perspective if you're not positive I'm town.

I don't give a FUCK if you don't like my swearing, or insults, or all caps. I am so mad at you for even saying that I am being scummy with this line of thought when it would be the MOST RETARDED SCUM PLAY IN EXISTENCE to try to argue this. The fact you even thought I was scummy as I said it means you're not reading what I am saying anyways.

Anyways, you're wrong. Chaqa's death 100% benefits town because if we get you vs darg wrong, which happens all the time in mafia games, we could lose the whole game because of Chaqa. If he is indeed town, as I have said numerous times, the scum have good odds of killing his lover and thus him too.

If our clears shut down this idea, I don't know what to say to them. This is so glaringly obvious an issue to ignore that it hurts my head that you even think how you are.

[EspressoPatronum]

Fundamentally, it's this:

1. Focus on Darg/EP - Get it right. Possibly lose 2 town tonight. It's either 8-4 or 7-4 on D5.
   ...
2. Take Chaqa out now. Town dies on NK - it's either 7-5 or 8-4 with Darg/EP available to figure out on D5.

...

Hmm, even with a 100% correct rate on the first, it's slightly more dangerous than the last option bcz Chaqa will be out of the pool.

Does losing a person to cow disease now hurt us more or less than losing one tomorrow? Is it the same?

[worcej]

Would Chaqa be a sensible cow target?

The Cow's target was chosen at the start of the game. It's more likely they are alive, but even with them dying too the game will be 7-4 on D5 if he is cow.

[worcej]

Fundamentally, it's this:

1. Focus on Darg/EP - Get it right. Possibly lose 2 town tonight. It's either 8-4 or 7-4 on D5.
   ...
2. Take Chaqa out now. Town dies on NK - it's either 7-5 or 8-4 with Darg/EP available to figure out on D5.

...

Hmm, even with a 100% correct rate on the first, it's slightly more dangerous than the last option bcz Chaqa will be out of the pool.

Does losing a person to cow disease now hurt us more or less than losing one tomorrow? Is it the same?

Cow's power is when the game is @ lylo - the scum will win if their town target is still alive.

[worcej]

Fuck, I feel like I am the only one that appreciates how the game changes as it goes along...

[Percy Williams]

Why would you crumb your target D1? That only had the potential to help the mafia.

And then the Obvscum realizes his mistake.

No, I did not think to crumb VT, although in this setup that would have been a good idea D1 before the mafia had a chance to assign their fake claim roles.

##Vote Bozotheclown
The most anti Town player I've seen.

ARE YOU ******* PAYING ANY ATTENTION?!!??!?!?!?!

I hate you all tonight. Every **** town player, I ******* hate how stupid you all can be.

Oi mate, I'm sensing some tensions. Perhaps if you took some deep breaths, you'd see that the qouted posts are before the Chaqa lynch talks. Calm down mate.
I understand your argument, but I'm not sure I agree.

[worcej]

And then the Obvscum realizes his mistake. ##Vote Bozotheclown
The most anti Town player I've seen.

ARE YOU ******* PAYING ANY ATTENTION?!!??!?!?!?!

I hate you all tonight. Every **** town player, I ******* hate how stupid you all can be.

Oi mate, I'm sensing some tensions. Perhaps if you took some deep breaths, you'd see that the qouted posts are before the Chaqa lynch talks. Calm down mate.
I understand your argument, but I'm not sure I agree.

I am tense because people are not paying attention at how grave our situation is.

Even more simpler:
Cow needs to die before lylo.
Human makes lylo = scum win.
Lover can make game go to lylo without warning.

[worcej]

I know I am rough and annoying and an asshole, but just do some simple math. Think about the setup and possibilities of the scum team.

We have to assume, and play accordingly, that they have a cow and a human. Thinking otherwise and not trying to play around these roles will spell our doom.

[worcej]

We cannot let the game get to lylo. Lover is the most dangerous to us right now because of this.

[Chaqa]

Jesus Christ this has gone on long enough just shut up and lynch me already.

Really though, bozo and Worcej, I’ve been TRYING to be cagey about who my Lover is because I DIDNT WANT THE MAFIA TO KILL THEM. You’re being so anti-town.

It might be Tom. It might not. All I can say is I’m about 95% certain that I WONT DIE TONIGHT. This isn’t selfish, this isn’t anti-town. I’m the only one who knows who my lover is and I’m not worried about it.

Let’s take out Darg or EP today and get a dead scum.

[worcej]

Jesus Christ this has gone on long enough just shut up and lynch me already.

Really though, bozo and Worcej, I’ve been TRYING to be cagey about who my Lover is because I DIDNT WANT THE MAFIA TO KILL THEM. You’re being so anti-town.

It might be Tom. It might not. All I can say is I’m about 95% certain that I WONT DIE TONIGHT. This isn’t selfish, this isn’t anti-town. I’m the only one who knows who my lover is and I’m not worried about it.

Let’s take out Darg or EP today and get a dead scum.

It isn't worth the risk. I can 100% guarantee you do not get us to lylo by getting rid of you now.

[worcej]

The Lover's existance getting to mylo and loving a scum could also mathematically end the game for us.

If you loved a town and they get killed, then we lose whenever the scum kill your partner as we go along.

If you loved a scum, then it's over anyways if the human or cow are still alive when we lynch your lover. We'll use 5-3 as an example - it becomes 4-2 going into the night, then for sure 3-2. If cow or human are alive we lose.

THE BEST PLAY FOR TOWN IS TO CONTROL HOW YOU DIE AND NOT LET THE SCUM DECIDE IT FOR US!