Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction, Sign Ups

[ND]

That's good. I am looking forward to the statement on the matter.

Squigs made a good post. I agree mostly with what he is saying.

[ND]

@Flum why should he have to publicly say he will stop being a dick? No one else has to do that? Why does he get singled out?

[TrPrado]

OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM THE GM'S:

Thank you to everyone for your input on this matter,

We did not come into this with the intention of excluding anyone. We came to our decision after a discussion with Chippe via PM. The rough dialogue is noted in Neph's earlier post. We both fully intended to run this game as normal and were fully expecting for Chippe to be able to play.

Coming from last game, many people voiced concerns that his behavior was strongly against the spirit of the game, and as such, lessened their enjoyment to the point they would not play if he was also playing, but we didn't want to simply tell him he couldn't play. We took this, what seemed, overwhelming community feeling and approached Chippe to voice these concerns. We simply asked that he post in this thread that he would not do so again. We both felt that this was a very lenient request, and were hoping for it to be a first step in proving to the community that they had nothing to be afraid of in terms of spirit of the game being violated in the future.

He did state privately via PM that he wouldn't try the same tactic (which we would not want to allow in this game anyway) purely because there was no advantage to him, and also said he would not make the public post. This raised two large concerns for Neph and myself.
1. He did not realize that his behavior was directly the cause of a number of players enjoying the previous game less.
2. He did not really appreciate the request of the GM's. While we do not wish to rule with an iron fist, we feel that any reasonable request would hopefully be followed. Especially when the rules, are merely an extension of the GM's requests.

In discussion after this response we decided that it would be best to exclude him from this game, and this decision is firm and final.

[ChippeRock]

If you want me to argue that you were breaking a rule in that game, this was in the OP of that game:
"To clarify further: Players may not copy and paste any game related Mechanics"

Technically it does state that, but you're leaving out the most important part (which I've so helpfully bolded for you):

To clarify further: Players may not copy and paste any game related Mechanics. Players may not doctor, and create fake game related mechanics. Players may not share personal correspondence between GM to player under any circumstances. The GM will not confirm any claims, or adjudicate based upon anything that could easily be sorted out through questioning and evidentiary circumstance.

All you guys had to do was ask the GMs one simple question: Is the game breakable through the role PMs?

That's it - it definitely could of been easily sorted out, which is why the GM couldn't adjudicate on the issue. You guys just failed to sort it out by asking that basic question.

If you guys had done that, than you guys would of realized that I wasn't providing any new information into the game, and my stunt wouldn't of provided me with an advantage (probably more of a disadvantage).

[ChippeRock]

OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM THE GM'S:

Thank you to everyone for your input on this matter,

We did not come into this with the intention of excluding anyone. We came to our decision after a discussion with Chippe via PM. The rough dialogue is noted in Neph's earlier post. We both fully intended to run this game as normal and were fully expecting for Chippe to be able to play.

Coming from last game, many people voiced concerns that his behavior was strongly against the spirit of the game, and as such, lessened their enjoyment to the point they would not play if he was also playing, but we didn't want to simply tell him he couldn't play. We took this, what seemed, overwhelming community feeling and approached Chippe to voice these concerns. We simply asked that he post in this thread that he would not do so again. We both felt that this was a very lenient request, and were hoping for it to be a first step in proving to the community that they had nothing to be afraid of in terms of spirit of the game being violated in the future.

He did state privately via PM that he wouldn't try the same tactic (which we would not want to allow in this game anyway) purely because there was no advantage to him, and also said he would not make the public post. This raised two large concerns for Neph and myself.
1. He did not realize that his behavior was directly the cause of a number of players enjoying the previous game less.
2. He did not really appreciate the request of the GM's. While we do not wish to rule with an iron fist, we feel that any reasonable request would hopefully be followed. Especially when the rules, are merely an extension of the GM's requests.

In discussion after this response we decided that it would be best to exclude him from this game, and this decision is firm and final.

How did our private conversation imply that I didn't realize my "behavior was directly the cause of a number of players enjoying the previous game less"?

Additionally, if you guys stated to me that you would rule differently on the matter than worcej & Jamiet, why not let me play and modkill me if I tried it again (despite the tactic gaining me no advantage the 2nd time around)? Why is this the better option?

[brainbomb]

if you make a new cancel have its focus be on player retention and code of conduct recitovation rates. also revise the forum policy on image posting in mafia.

most sites allow it. alot of ppl like to be able to post fun pictures. the mods here violate their own forum policy on it.

in games at least it should be turned on

[brainbomb]

if you make a new cancel have its focus be on player retention and code of conduct recitovation rates. also revise the forum policy on image posting in mafia.

most sites allow it. alot of ppl like to be able to post fun pictures. the mods here violate their own forum policy on it.

in games at least it should be turned on

COUNCIL not CANCEL.

player retention is like you convince ppl theyre worthwhile

[ChippeRock]

OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM THE GM'S:

Thank you to everyone for your input on this matter,

We did not come into this with the intention of excluding anyone. We came to our decision after a discussion with Chippe via PM. The rough dialogue is noted in Neph's earlier post. We both fully intended to run this game as normal and were fully expecting for Chippe to be able to play.

Coming from last game, many people voiced concerns that his behavior was strongly against the spirit of the game, and as such, lessened their enjoyment to the point they would not play if he was also playing, but we didn't want to simply tell him he couldn't play. We took this, what seemed, overwhelming community feeling and approached Chippe to voice these concerns. We simply asked that he post in this thread that he would not do so again. We both felt that this was a very lenient request, and were hoping for it to be a first step in proving to the community that they had nothing to be afraid of in terms of spirit of the game being violated in the future.

He did state privately via PM that he wouldn't try the same tactic (which we would not want to allow in this game anyway) purely because there was no advantage to him, and also said he would not make the public post. This raised two large concerns for Neph and myself.
1. He did not realize that his behavior was directly the cause of a number of players enjoying the previous game less.
2. He did not really appreciate the request of the GM's. While we do not wish to rule with an iron fist, we feel that any reasonable request would hopefully be followed. Especially when the rules, are merely an extension of the GM's requests.

In discussion after this response we decided that it would be best to exclude him from this game, and this decision is firm and final.

How did our private conversation imply that I didn't realize my "behavior was directly the cause of a number of players enjoying the previous game less"?

Additionally, if you guys stated to me that you would rule differently on the matter than worcej & Jamiet, why not let me play and modkill me if I tried it again (despite the tactic gaining me no advantage the 2nd time around)? Why is this the better option?

Furthermore, I've called the persona I adopted during the previous game an "asshole" multiple times; wouldn't that imply that I'm aware that people enjoy the game less as a result of my gameplay?

[brainbomb]

ok no more politics.

when do we start.

[ND]

Fair enough. I thank TrPrado and Neph for their statement on the issue. I do not support the exclusion of players from a game when they have not broken any rules in the prior game. To me, that is a very slippery slope and one that can lead to a non-inclusive player community. As someone who has supported the community through numerous avenues (council, GM, player, support, etc) I don’t like the direction this is going. However, this is their game and they are going to run it how they wish.

That being said, I am going to withdraw from the game. Please remove me from the player list and confirmation list at once. It breaks my heart to do so and is a very difficult decision. Chippie has after all made me very angry in the past both as a player and a GM, but if we don’t stand up for the weakest amongst us then any of us could be excluded in the future. Maintaining an inclusive player community is my primary concern. So, I am going to withdraw from the game.

I will be GMing the next game (m48) and I can ensure to the player base that there will be NO and I mean NO exclusions in that game. My game will be inclusive and open to anyone who wishes to play as all games should be. I hope that future GMs follow my lead and also have open and inclusive games with NO exclusions. I’ll see those of you who wish to play in Mafia 48 where we will have an open and exclusion free game.

Enjoy this game. Thanks for reading my post and have a great game those of you who wish to still play.

[brainbomb]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for President

[Fluminator]

Would you exclude a nazi from playing?

[ChippeRock]

Would you exclude a nazi from playing?

Please refrain from comparing my exclusion from this game to the potential exclusion from a webDp Mafia game a Nazi might experience.

[Fluminator]

Sorry, I'm not comparing you to a nazi.

I was more just trolling ND because he said NO ONE would be excluded.

[brainbomb]

this is such a niche sub culture ya know. I dont think nazis would be good at this game

[ChippeRock]

this is such a niche sub culture ya know. I dont think nazis would be good at this game

Are you admitting you're not good at the game?

[ND]

Sorry, I'm not comparing you to a nazi.

I was more just trolling ND because he said NO ONE would be excluded.

I'm not excluding anyone from M48. I don't care who you are as long as you agree to follow the rules.

[Chaqa]

I didn't play in last game, so I don't know the details, but just on principle I'm very much against excluding someone who, from my understanding, did not break any rules, was found to have not broken any rules, and simply is being punished because some people didn't like his play-style and because he won't make a very ridiculously-demanded public post saying he won't do it again?

Is this what mafia has come to?

[ND]

Apparently

[Chaqa]

IMPORTANT

One of these regarded playing to the spirit of the game and in a way that would enable all players to enjoy the game. This was started due to the tactic employed by ChippeRock in which he insinuated that he had been able to subvert the rules to prove his role.

I for one, found this to be incredibly against the spirit of the game and that it negatively impacted the experience of an otherwise exceptional set-up, as did many other players in that game. It was determined by the GMs of that game that no rule was broken and no sanction applied.

Moving into this game I approached Chippe, asking that he stated publicly in this thread that he would not employ a similar tactic this game. He argued that he did not consider any rule to be broken therefore his actions were nonpunishable. I asked him again drawing attention to rule 0, that GMs are to negotiate situations as needed. Considering the reaction last game, I thought this necessary to ensure the best experience for all players. He stated that he would not do so on this thread as he did not necessary.

I have discussed this with my co-GM and we have agreed that my request was reasonable and the response was, to keep it short, disappointing. As such we have decided to exclude Chippe from this game and access to the God Thread.

This is not something that we wished for and it is a very regrettable situation to have unfolded.

OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM THE GM'S:

Thank you to everyone for your input on this matter,

We did not come into this with the intention of excluding anyone. We came to our decision after a discussion with Chippe via PM. The rough dialogue is noted in Neph's earlier post. We both fully intended to run this game as normal and were fully expecting for Chippe to be able to play.

Coming from last game, many people voiced concerns that his behavior was strongly against the spirit of the game, and as such, lessened their enjoyment to the point they would not play if he was also playing, but we didn't want to simply tell him he couldn't play. We took this, what seemed, overwhelming community feeling and approached Chippe to voice these concerns. We simply asked that he post in this thread that he would not do so again. We both felt that this was a very lenient request, and were hoping for it to be a first step in proving to the community that they had nothing to be afraid of in terms of spirit of the game being violated in the future.

He did state privately via PM that he wouldn't try the same tactic (which we would not want to allow in this game anyway) purely because there was no advantage to him, and also said he would not make the public post. This raised two large concerns for Neph and myself.
1. He did not realize that his behavior was directly the cause of a number of players enjoying the previous game less.
2. He did not really appreciate the request of the GM's. While we do not wish to rule with an iron fist, we feel that any reasonable request would hopefully be followed. Especially when the rules, are merely an extension of the GM's requests.

In discussion after this response we decided that it would be best to exclude him from this game, and this decision is firm and final.

To me, it seems pretty straightforward, and as a longtime GM, here's what I think.

1. Rule 0 is for adjudication of in-game situations. It is not to be used as a blanket cover for excluding players who you don't like, or whose playstyles you disagree with.
2. He did not break any rules in the previous game.
3. You have said, that a similar playstyle would not be allowed in this game, under your discretion - This is a proper implementation of Rule 0.

Therefore, the proper thing to do would be:
1. Allow Chippe to play
2. Disallow that playstyle under rule 0
3. If he is found to be breaking it, then punish him

What you're doing is pre-emptive punishment, and I'm very disappointed to see you, Prado, specifically, go along with this.

If Chippe is barred from playing, consider me out of the game as well.