Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[Durga]

GM NOTE:

Peterlund and teacon7 must cast a valid vote (for one of the two candidates above) by phase end.

i'm sure you can forgive peterlund as he just subbed in for you

[et]

Firstly, I think many scum voting EP too.
Because, there are very calm now.
So, mafia's plan is lynch EP.
I think mafia won't swing so many vote. Because that make sure they are maffia.
Then, why maffia kill EP?
I have 3 ideas.
1.EP is maffia, other maffias are willing to be towny for voting EP.
2.EP is town. Maffia want to alive me because my townreading is wrong.
3.EP is town. Maffia is lurking for not giving information for me.

I think EP is town, so I don't think case1 deeply for now.
I think 2 or(and) 3 is Maffia's plan.

[EspressoPatronum]

Firstly, I think many scum voting EP too.
Because, there are very calm now.
So, mafia's plan is lynch EP.
I think mafia won't swing so many vote. Because that make sure they are maffia.
Then, why maffia kill EP?
I have 3 ideas.
1.EP is maffia, other maffias are willing to be towny for voting EP.
2.EP is town. Maffia want to alive me because my townreading is wrong.
3.EP is town. Maffia is lurking for not giving information for me.

I think EP is town, so I don't think case1 deeply for now.
I think 2 or(and) 3 is Maffia's plan.

What are your thoughts on a tie vote? Is it good? Do you think it would work?

[Durga]

I honestly kinda wanna see how et flips

[FlaviusAetius]

it don’t think a tie vote will work but we should do it because IF someone switches we can attack em’

[FlaviusAetius]

I’m on my mom’s phone right now I can’t go back and do my usual but I wanted to make sure I was here for EoD

[et]

To be honest, I can't change my townreading easily.
So, I am going to think depth about case3 for now.

In that case, many mafia hoped early end of our argument.
So, players, who are willing to read about EP and me to the last, are very towny.
For example, Squigs, Durga and Balki.
And Chippe is holding his vote. That may encourage argument.
So, Chippe is towny too.

[Tom Bombadil]

##vote et

Let’s make this close

[Tom Bombadil]

“Tom Bombadil - His playstyle reminds me a bit of Balki’s,...”

I’ve never been more flattered

[et]

Firstly, I think many scum voting EP too.
Because, there are very calm now.
So, mafia's plan is lynch EP.
I think mafia won't swing so many vote. Because that make sure they are maffia.
Then, why maffia kill EP?
I have 3 ideas.
1.EP is maffia, other maffias are willing to be towny for voting EP.
2.EP is town. Maffia want to alive me because my townreading is wrong.
3.EP is town. Maffia is lurking for not giving information for me.

I think EP is town, so I don't think case1 deeply for now.
I think 2 or(and) 3 is Maffia's plan.

What are your thoughts on a tie vote? Is it good? Do you think it would work?

I hope tie vote if it work.
And I can't say it would work or not.

[TrPrado]

No way in heck that guy (Espresso) is scum people. His wagon is one of the dumbest wagons I've ever seen.

While I disagree, you make it sound like et is and has been a strong scum read of yours.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT:

EspressoPatronum (8) - TrPrado, damo666, Foxcastle, et, Nephthys, FlaviusAetius, xorxes, Percy Williams
et (7) - rdrivera2005, connorcompton, EspressoPatronum, Squigs44, ND, Durga, Tom Bombadil

EspressoPatronum is scheduled to be lynched.

There is 1 hour left.

Teacon and Peterlund must vote.

[ND]

-snip-
For example, Squigs, Durga and Balki.
And Chippe is holding his vote. That may encourage argument.
So, Chippe is towny too.

What does this even mean?

[Tom Bombadil]

No way in heck that guy (Espresso) is scum people. His wagon is one of the dumbest wagons I've ever seen.

While I disagree, you make it sound like et is and has been a strong scum read of yours.

How do you get that implication Tr?

[ND]

No way in heck that guy (Espresso) is scum people. His wagon is one of the dumbest wagons I've ever seen.

While I disagree, you make it sound like et is and has been a strong scum read of yours.

Nah, but the Judge forced this and i've re-read both. Prior to this, I had been mentally townleaning Espresso. I highly doubt Espresso is scum.

[TrPrado]

No way in heck that guy (Espresso) is scum people. His wagon is one of the dumbest wagons I've ever seen.

While I disagree, you make it sound like et is and has been a strong scum read of yours.

How do you get that implication Tr?

A lot of people have stated they townread both, and ND seems to be implying that the basis of the votes are scumreads. “He’s obviously town, your wagon is dumb, but the guy I’m voting for, on the other hand...”

[et]

And, players voted EP before sideloped are,
TrPrado,damo6,Foxcastle,Nephthys,Tom Bombadil.
EP claimed himself as VT. So, mafia wanted to lynch me fundamentally.
But they prevent that.
I can't say they are all town,
TrPrad and Tom have original opinion.
TrPrad's opinion about role claiming and Tom's opinion about post length and quickness. So Prad and Tom is likely town I think.

[Squigs44]

Just finished helping someone move, should be on the till EoD. With how little people are caring, this looks increasingly like town v town.

[ChippeRock]

I've tried summarizing all of their actions, and than responding to some key parts of it. For those of you skimming, I have underlined my analysis. Overall analysis of the specific phase is bolded and underlined.

EspressoPatronum

Day 1:

Page 12: States he skimmed, and his initial thoughts are that teacon is playing like town - and he thinks Squiggs is overreacting - and he's not sure about Flav.

How the fuck does someone already get a read in the first 12 pages? Everyone's still in "not serious mode" - including teacon (as far as I can tell, he's really not done much in terms of playing the game seriously. You're off to a bad start, you already look scummy.

Pages 17 - 28: Actively pursues my case as a result of my trying to definitively prove I'm VT. Votes me because he thinks I'm scummy because my posts are defensive, and I don't want to cooperate with town. Finds out he voted incorrectly, revotes for me - signifying his stance on me hasn't changed.

Page 18-19: In response to a comment to Durga about Flav, he states that he thinks that if Flav is secretary, than he would be active on Mafia QT - which would mean he would be less active on the forum - so he doesn't see think Flav is scum simply because he's active.

Durga responds to this by stating her comment wasn't about Flav's activity, but about his comment on Balki. Espresso responds by questioning why she's making reads off of one post.

You're essentially being a hypocrite. See my previous comment.

Page 23: In response to Tom's comment about no knowing Espresso, he states he's willing to answer any questions about himself. Answers Tom's resulting question about his experience on Page 29.

Page 29: Answers darg's question about whether or not playing on the webDip forum changes things for Espresso vs IRL games - states he thinks the pros & cons of webDip forum vs IRL Mafia balance each other out; darg also asks for Espresso's reads, which Espresso says he'll do later.

Mostly useless conversation that's contributing nothing for town.

Page 35-41: Restates & defends his town read of teacon7 (from Balki) under the justification that he played this way last game. Asks Balki to take a look at teacon's D1 reads and report back if he's playing the same way.

Now's a more reasonable time to make a town read on teacon7. Still suspicious as hell to make it so damn early.

Page 56: Agrees that TrPrado is rushing his scum read on me.

If you couldn't tell before, I'm policy lynching Chippe!

Page 56: Comments on Cruuader's "No Lynch" stance. States his reasoning behind the "Always Lynch" stance and asks Cruuader to provide a detailed argument on his "No Lynch" stance.

It's all fun and games to have conversations like this, but you still haven't provided reads (emphasis on plural)!

Page 62: States that he doesn't think Durga is buddying.

Page 62: In response to my analysis of MoscowFleet's past games, he questions whether or not D1 lynches are better than random. States that his past experience with policy lynching seemed to work out well.

This could be a possible justifier for his vote on me - though it seems targeted towards MoscowFleet. This seems to indicate he has some willingness to lynch MoscowFleet simply because he's the best policy lynch. Please note that there's about 2 hours left.

Again, fun conversation, but this doesn't do much for town. Why aren't you elaborating more on your teacon read or at least providing brief reads on other people?

Page 63: Disagrees with Durga that Fox is buddying her.

Page 63: States to teacon that he'll have the conversation about policy lynches later.

So, my analysis of Espresso's Day 1 is as follows: He appears to be trying to appear like he's contributing to the discussion (with his questions and opinions about things that are mostly unrelated to the current game - e.g., my VT claim, online vs IRL Mafia, & policy lynching) while also minimally contributing with reads. For the read he did make, I don't know how the fuck he made that read so early. His policy lynch vote on me is a safe vote. Overall, his first day looks very scummy.

Night 1:

Page 91: States he hasn't had much time for D1, but he'll have more time on D2.

If this is the case, why didn't he spend more time making reads rather than spending time participating in meaningless discussions?

Page 91: Defends me against Durga, stating that I'm contributing since I stopped w/ my VT claim and I've been one of the top contributors. He states that this doesn't change the fact I most likely tried gaming the system.

Where does this sudden change of heart come from? Why did your vote stay on me with 2 hours to go in Day 2? I started "contributing" before that, so why did you spend that time discussing policy lynches rather than changing your vote on me or pointing out my "contributions" or justifying why your vote on me remains despite my "contributions"?

Page 91: Defends the effective policy lynch of bozo.

Page 91: In response to ND claiming he thinks TrPrado's town based on tells Prado exhibitied in previous games as town, he questions ND on what those tells are.

Page 92: In response to my post questioning his contribution, he states again he hasn't been able to contribute as much as he normally does, but he hopes to do so in the upcoming days. States that he thinks I'm calling his contributions "nothing" because I don't like his motivations for voting for me, though he does admit it's not a lot.

This is curious, he seems to instantly assume that I'm OMGUS calling him out for his lack of contribution. Is this unintentional, or is he trying to put a spin on it so that it seems like I'm not treating him impartially?

Page 92: States that my scum read of bozo was clearly an OMGUS. Also states that I'm an emotional player, and curiously, my top town reads are my supporters. He also insults me by stating I have a large ego and calling me scum.

He got really pissed off at me out of nowhere. This emotional response almost seems faked, since he got really pissed off at me based on a couple of posts. Additionally, he states that I scum read bozo? Curious assumption to make since I made several statements denying that I scumread bozo - with the most recent being on Pages 87 & 91, which were posted 121 and 23 minutes (respectively) before he made this post.

Page 97: In response to questions fro Balki, states he thinks Flav is probably scum - but he's hedging his answer due to the secretary.

Page 97: In response to TrPrado (who asks him what are his thoughts on issues not related to me and questions why he only shares his thoughts on those issues when questioned). Responds that he doesn't have a lot of reads, and that his lack of activity (as he stated before) makes it harder to contribute to current discussions.

He states that he thinks I'm tunneling and that highly aggressive & reactionary players aren't useful to town. Also states he doesn't support gaming the system. States he won't fixate only on me, and that he might/probably will change his stance on me. Reinforces his town read of teacon is due to teacon playing the same as in earlier games.

I'm really not sure where his burst of anger came from, though its sudden jump from 0 to 100 makes it look scummy. Not much else during N1 though.

Day 2:

Page 102-104: Comments & speculates on the NK.

Page 102: Thinks that Fox is scum because Carl intended to go after him and Carl died during the night. States that he thinks I'm scum due to my "incompetence".

Page 104: Decides that Flav is probably the assassin due to the day kill being used so early and the vote swing at EoD.

I think this is a fair read.

Page 111: States that he thinks both Flav & Fox are scum. Also states he thinks Balki looks town.

Page 112: States that darg being baliff makes my Day 1 actions more suspicious. States that my behavior since the VT claim appears fairly town.

Hold on, what?? I know he indicated that he might change his opinion on me, but this seems like a really quick turnaround read from scum to town. Awfully suspicious.

Page 113-114: Speculates on BA's identity.

Day 2, After Judge Names Him as 1 of 2 Candidates:

Page 120: Hard claims VT. States (which he restates in Page 123) he thinks et should claim if he's a PR, and if that's the case he's the better lynch.

Page 127: States that if he were scum, he would of claimed PR role. States Durga should be asked to confirm this (she never does, but perhaps that's because she doesn't want to associate herself with him if he does flip scum - which is sorta scummy in itself).

Pages 128 & 129: Defends his claim of VT. Restates that his play in the previous game supports that he's not scum. States that town lynching PR is the worst thing they can do - that's why he claimed VT.

As several others have pointed out, if et PR claims to save his hide, there are one of two options: either he gets NKed at night, or he's scum, and you just lynched the wrong person. This logic just doesn't make sense to claim VT and urge for et to claim PR if he is a PR.

Also, the previous game does jack squat to support you're not scum - if it's obvious enough that you're pointing it out, than surely it would of been obvious enough for scum!Espresso to mimic his gameplay in the previous game as well.

Page 129: States that based on the theory that darg was the Mafia target, there's a high likelyhood Fox is scum.

Pages 131-134: Further defends his VT claim - going over the scenarios to justify why his VT claim is best for town.

Page 141: Lists out his day 2 reads. States that he thinks most, if not all, of the Mafia are voting for him.

Here they are! Finally! Coincidentally, you're on the chopping block... BTW, I think it's ridiculous to think that *most, if not all* of the Mafia are voting for you, since Mafia would probably try not to vote together (maybe something like 4-2 at worst case).

Some interesting reads considering no prior reads on them. I would prefer he explain why xorxes would claim he was roleblocked if he were scum... Also interesting that this scum read came straight out of nowhere.

Overall, his Day 2 participation is mostly, in my opinion, a result of him being on the chopping block. I'm sure he would've participated more since he said he now had more time to participate, but I think his neck being on the chopping block has led him to participate more. I disagree with his reasoning behind his VT claim, and I just don't think that his Day 2 was nearly enough to overcome his scummyness in Day 1.

et

Day 1:

Page 24: Asks Tom & bozo (who voted for me) and Carl (who voted for Prado) for the reasons behind their votes. Emphasizes he wants bozo's explanation the most - since he can't read him with just the vote. He reasks the question to Tom on Page 29.

So far, he seems genuinely interested in solving the game.

Page 27: Tells me stop talking about "cheating". Tells me that he believes me when I say I'm not cheating and that it's time for me to find scum.

He's not getting caught up on my VT claim and looks to be trying to solve the game so far...

Page 30: Gets response from Tom to aforementioned reask of his question from Page 29. Asks a couple more questions - "Why is it a temporate vote on Chip?" and "Why didn't you explain your vote in the first place?"

Page 31: States that if lurkers aren't lynched, than they scum can hide easily. "Votes" for Neph because while Neph has appeared to catch up on the thread, bozo doesn't seem to be active.

Interesting, et seems to think that lurkers should be lynched. He also appears to be indicating his vote on boz and "vote" on Neph were pressure votes to get answers. Seems reasonable so far.

Page 53: Asks TrPrado if he thinks Neph is scum and who else he thinks is scum. He states he thinks bozo might be scum because he doesn't understand bozo's explanation of his vote on me. Reads Carl, me, teacon, & Percy as town. States he found the discussion over my cheating to be not useful to finding scum.

All of these reads out of nowhere without any real explanation of them! Seems kind of suspicious... He's making reads though I suppose.

Page 54: Finally votes bozo - states he won't change this vote unless something major occurs. Backs up his vote by stating that he thinks bozo was just joining my bandwagonn, and he thinks bozo just wants to blend in - and he finds that scummy. Thinks that he can get information from lynching bozo - and gives an example that he would focus on Fox if bozo flipped scum.

Okay, I can follow this logic... A little bit simplistic, but I can understand it. Would like to have an explanation behind the Fox thing though.

Page 61: Questions TrPrado's unvote.

Fair question in my opinion. So far, he looks to be legitimately scumhunting.

Page 64: States he wants to lynch lurkers, but his vote might change to TrPrado because he finds his unvote scummy.

Okay, curious. It appears like bozo is being lynched because he's lurking and his lack of communication is suspicious.

Page 64: Asks bozo if his statement that he thought I was scum was a fake claim.

I think this is a misunderstanding. He seems to have sorta broken English so far so it seems like this is probably the case.

Page 66: States that bozo "obviously lied" about the reason behind voting for me and as a result he must be scum.

Again, I think this opinion stems from a misunderstanding.

Page 71-72 (keep in mind, 33 mins left in the phase): States he misunderstood bozo and that he though bozo was stating he was policy lynching me. Asks bozo if he thinks I'm a town PR. Asks bozo if I made any scummy moves after that after receiving an answer to his 1st question (doesn't receive answer to the 2nd question, even though bozo was online).

I believe him when he says it's a misunderstanding. Seems like he's trying to hear bozo's side and that he might change his vote. Perhaps if bozo did, he might of changed his vote.

Page 74: Expresses that he hopes bozo gets lynched over TrPrado.
This is surprising, I thought his read on bozo might of shifted - and since he expressed that he thought Prado was scummy before, he might change his vote.

Hard to read him - it seems like noob town, but perhaps he's playing up the noob card to hard. He seems to have genuinely though bozo was scum - was this tunneling? I think so.

Night 1:

Page 79: Expresses surprise over bozo being a VT.

The surprise almost seems faked... Though he did seem convinced bozo was scum.

Page 80: States that he was confident bozo was scum. Asks Flav to, if he thinks him & Prado are scum, to explain why TrPrado & him are scum.

Seems genuine, he's looking to refute all of Flav's points. I can't tell if he's looking for a new perspective on why TrPrado's scum or if he's looking to defend him as well... Interesting...

Page 94: Questions Squiggs on why he voted for Neph, and than changed his vote to bozo. Asks him if he thought Flav was scum at the time.

He almost seems confused over why Squiggs switched, since Squiggs had his vote originally on bozo. Could be scummy.

Page 95: Lists 3 players to focus because he thinks they're scum and asks some questions about them:

1) Squiggs - If he thought Flav was scum so strongly, why did he vote for bozo? Did he change his mind on Flav?

2) TrPrado - Why did he not post his long report at night? Was he afraid to be lynched by scum?

3) ND - Why does ND think bozo's scumread (me) is correct?

He seems confused over Squiggs - it's like he never read the post where Squiggs changed his mind. Still reads TrPrado as scum, but wouldn't change his vote to TrPrado because he felt confident bozo was scum...

Doesn't really do much during Night 1, but he does provide two new people who he thinks might be scum. Still hard to get a read on him.

Day 2:

Page 117: States he's thinking about Squiggs, ND, & Neph as his lynch target. Questions whether Squiggs changing his mind on Flav is scummy or towny. States that if ND's theory about Flav buddying me is correct, I'm town and Flav is scum. States that Neph is intentionally lurking, and he's not sure the motivation behind that kind of behavior.

Okay, I don't understand why he has Squiggs on this list due to his early actions in Day 1. He seems to have legitimate reasons behind thinking ND & Neph are scum.

Page 118: Speculates on NKs.

Page 120: States he thinks Flav is a little bit towny. States he was scumread as too many players at the start of D1 and he was angry after bozo's lynch - if he were scum, he would feel relieved. Restates he's scumread me, Percy, & teacon.

Seems like relatively sound logic behind his read on Flav. Still no explanation behind the Percy & teacon reads.

Page 120: Clarifies his reads on Percy & teacon. Percy, because his thoughts about bozo were similar to his. And teacon, because his realtime conversation with teacon felt natural (this is restated in a posts he made on Page 131 & Page 132).

Hmm, suspicious looking reasons. But he still feels noob town to me...

Page 120: In response to Espresso, states he doesn't think either of them should claim PR. He wants to see the reaction of other players, and claiming PR doesn't let that happen. He thinks it's better to claim later on tonight.

Why would it be better on to claim later on tonight? That idea seems convoluted.

Page 122: Clarifies on his reasons behind not wanting to claim PR. States disbelief on why anchoring is insensitive and states that not anchoring helps scum keep their options open at EoD.

Backing up his ideas, I can see why he doesn't want to say he's PR - but he doesn't seem to consider that if he PRed, he would be NKed. This really reinforces my noob town read of him.

Page 122: Restates that he voted bozo because he couldn't understand his vote and that he thinks I'm town with confidence because of my post about not cheating. Thinks Prado is scummy.

I truly think he is noob town based off of his logic here. Otherwise, it's unexplainable.

Page 125: Lists all the scenarios on why Espresso would encourage to claim. Indicates that he thinks Espresso is VT.

Curious that he thinks Espresso is VT. Don't see an explanation behind it - he just seems to believe the claim. Not sure if he's playing the noob card too heavily here, but his noobiness & the broken English makes it seem like it's genuine and not a shtick.

Page 132: States that Squiggs townread of Percy is because Percy agreed with Squiggs. Asks Squiggs why this makes him town and asks him whether or not his opinion on teacon & me have changed.

Potentially genuine questions? Note sure if the motivation behind them is genuine. Probably, considering his previous questions seem very genuine.

Page 133: States again (to Espresso) that if he claims PR, everyone will just vote for Espresso - meaning no information is garnered from the vote.

I can agree with that point of his. It's a pretty good point. He's also reinforced it many times before.

Page 134: Thinks EP is town, and he claimed VT to appear more townie. Doesn't think he's fishing for PR.

Page 137: Justifies his scumread of TrPrado: He voted for Squiggs, than unvoted. Than he read Squiggs as scum at the EoD - this is very weird, and potentially scummy. But he appears to have a townie reason for voting for Espresso. Changes read of TrPrado to town.

Okay, that's an understandable reason in my opinion to read TrPrado as potential scum.

It's very hard to get a read on et - a lot of his gameplay is confusing. While he is playing the noob card really hard, I think it seems genuine and I think he's probably noob town.

[ND]

If I had to give a flat score for you TrPrado here ya go:

Espresso: Lean Town (I've mentioned a few critiques in my re-read post)

ET: Lean Scum/Null (I've talked about why in my re-read post)

I think ET is the better vote and the better wagon based on what I am seeing. Doesn't mean he is my top read or anything, but today is only about him and Espresso. No other option is apparently allowed.