Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[EspressoPatronum]

@Espresso do you believe et is town?

My kneejerk reaction is to say no.... but I'm almost certain that is because I'm in the "him or me" mode. Let me think on it overnight and give him a proper iso tomorrow.

I don't like that he hasn't claimed a role, but that's apparently not as scum indicative as the metas I'm used to.

I feel like your long post with all the scenarios kind of assumed ET was Town. Can you explain why you might have conveyed that unintentionally?

There are more two extra town scenarios because PR =/= VT. I didn't see a reason to draw a distinction between normal scum and PR scum.

Town scenarios - 1, 2, 3, 7*, 8
Scum scenarios - 5, 6, 7*

7* kinda touches on both possibilities.

[et]

I already pointed.

bozotheclown
Day-1 28:09
page 30 / orig
↑Foxcastle: "And Bozo is back! We're all* very** curious** about your vote, Bozo.

[* Those of us interested in the game, anyway]
[*..."
What ChippeRock is doing seems like a scum ploy.

bozotheclown
Day-1 22:13
page 39 / orig
↑rdrivera2005: "Bozo, you are usually better then this. Could you present what is the scum motivation for Chippe to do this? Or do you b..."
I am sure his motivation was to look like a VT, but it really does not matter, since his own claims have confirmed him as scum.

Please tell me why did you post these.

Those all say the same thing I am currently saying, that ChippeRock is scum and was claiming to be able prove he is VT as a scum ploy.

Ok. I misunderstood about that. I thought you claim policy lynch for Chip.
Then, do you think Chip as town PR?

This is my reply for boz at p.71.

[Durga]

Several people have expressed towny feelings regarding Espressos lengthy posts. I just want to remind everyone that those are much less “readable” than off the cuff moments. It is useful information potentially, but I’d be careful townreadinf someone based on posts that can be very carefully crafted like that. Off the cuff, quick responses are much more readable than those long crafted messages.

This is a weird take because it's not like his posts are mostly fluff like trprado

[Durga]

@Durga, what are your thoughts here, you've played IRL with Espresso. Is this legit, is it not? I'm curious as to your thoughts.

Seems legit and seems like his town meta from last game as well.

[FlaviusAetius]

Should we just lynch Moscow?

Yes, yesterday.

But also, he just finished a game where he lurked his way to scum victory. Nearly got modkilled for it. I'm just not sure he would do that twice in a row.

Maybe if we can catch a break and buy some time, the Blind Assassin could help us out with finding lurking scum. (Which could fit the Darg kill. He does have lurks-as-scum reputation. But that's speculative and I'm not sure it goes anywhere useful without more information.)

I just don't understand how people fail to continue to understand why MF's past games should NOT be used against him. Again, I analyzed ALL of MoscowFleet's previous games here, this is extremely unusual behavior from Town!MoscowFleet and Scum!MoscowFleet. Please read it before making another post expressing this same viewpoint.

If you disagree with my analysis, than please post why.

It DOES matter, just not so sure it matters RIGHT NOW
@Espresso I have not read your Part II yet but there is one point I disagree with your entire argument and it is this;
et did not have to claim, nor you at the start of the Judge debate, if there is 1-2 hours until EoD and it looks like et is about to be lynched, then YES he should claim, and he should have the argument ready of the proof of the crumbs he's left behind then, because at that point its do or die

et does not have to claim now, nor should he, if he's PR he should keep it to himself, and you claiming VT, kinda puts him in a tough spot because there very well is a chance he now is a PR, and you've gone screwed it up with this entire argument

sigh
I dont know if your scum at this point, since it seems you really do believe in this argument, but you sure as heck didn't think this through

[et]

Answer for Squigs 3(last)

You say that you townread Chippe, Percy, and teacon viewtopic.php?p=82523#p82523 (here). Those townreads seem to be built at the very beginning of D1. The townread of Percy looks to be because he agreed with you? Why does agreeing with you make him townie? Any updates on your thoughts of teacon, or Chippe?

About Percy, I guess his thought of voting bozo and that might be correct.
So I think he is townie. I don't think he agreed me.
About Chipe, I have thought he is townie.
And I haven't read teacon and Percy's post Day2 yet, I am worried.

[FlaviusAetius]

@Espresso, you say you've played this a lot IRL and so I would have hoped that you would have logically waited until closer to the phase, we almost always have enough people online to change things if you he claims. Doing so now is horribly poor play.

Agreed!

[Tom Bombadil]

Several people have expressed towny feelings regarding Espressos lengthy posts. I just want to remind everyone that those are much less “readable” than off the cuff moments. It is useful information potentially, but I’d be careful townreadinf someone based on posts that can be very carefully crafted like that. Off the cuff, quick responses are much more readable than those long crafted messages.

This is a weird take because it's not like his posts are mostly fluff like trprado

That’s just because I get the impression EP is better at the game than Prado

[TrPrado]

Everything I do has purpose. I am He Who Must Find The Way.

[TrPrado]

As promised, here’s why I think et should have claimed. This is PART I of 2.

I - The Central Piece of My Argument
My central premise is this: the worst thing the town can do is mislynch a PR (henceforth the “Premise”). If you disagree with the Premise, you will likely disagree with my actions & and none of my arguments will be very persuasive.

So listen. The big overarching problem that makes this whole thing inexcusable in my eyes is that it doesn't protect PR's. If they out then they're as good as dead anyway. No matter how many words you put on screen to defend the concept, that's the only direction that can head.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying a PR dying at night is worse than the town lynching a PR? If not, I don't see why you have a problem with the Premise.

You raise a valid concern about outing PRs, and I touch on it later in my post... but it doesn't really have to do with the Premise.

I'm saying it's equally bad and I don't know how you don't get it.

[EspressoPatronum]

Yes, yesterday.

But also, he just finished a game where he lurked his way to scum victory. Nearly got modkilled for it. I'm just not sure he would do that twice in a row.

Maybe if we can catch a break and buy some time, the Blind Assassin could help us out with finding lurking scum. (Which could fit the Darg kill. He does have lurks-as-scum reputation. But that's speculative and I'm not sure it goes anywhere useful without more information.)

I just don't understand how people fail to continue to understand why MF's past games should NOT be used against him. Again, I analyzed ALL of MoscowFleet's previous games here, this is extremely unusual behavior from Town!MoscowFleet and Scum!MoscowFleet. Please read it before making another post expressing this same viewpoint.

If you disagree with my analysis, than please post why.

It DOES matter, just not so sure it matters RIGHT NOW
@Espresso I have not read your Part II yet but there is one point I disagree with your entire argument and it is this;
et did not have to claim, nor you at the start of the Judge debate, if there is 1-2 hours until EoD and it looks like et is about to be lynched, then YES he should claim, and he should have the argument ready of the proof of the crumbs he's left behind then, because at that point its do or die

et does not have to claim now, nor should he, if he's PR he should keep it to himself, and you claiming VT, kinda puts him in a tough spot because there very well is a chance he now is a PR, and you've gone screwed it up with this entire argument

sigh
I dont know if your scum at this point, since it seems you really do believe in this argument, but you sure as heck didn't think this through

Your criticisms are all PART II material. Let me know yours thoughts after you've read through it and a few of my responses to other replies.

@ND This is why I repeated myself so much about being absent. Everyone kept asking me the same question but hadn't read my response to the others. At least here I can direct them back to the post.

[EspressoPatronum]

Several people have expressed towny feelings regarding Espressos lengthy posts. I just want to remind everyone that those are much less “readable” than off the cuff moments. It is useful information potentially, but I’d be careful townreadinf someone based on posts that can be very carefully crafted like that. Off the cuff, quick responses are much more readable than those long crafted messages.

This is a weird take because it's not like his posts are mostly fluff like trprado

That’s just because I get the impression EP is better at the game than Prado

Bless your soul. Can I stop debating with him about the Premise now?

[TrPrado]

Several people have expressed towny feelings regarding Espressos lengthy posts. I just want to remind everyone that those are much less “readable” than off the cuff moments. It is useful information potentially, but I’d be careful townreadinf someone based on posts that can be very carefully crafted like that. Off the cuff, quick responses are much more readable than those long crafted messages.

This is a weird take because it's not like his posts are mostly fluff like trprado

I color coded my last one for you now you're just being a bully

[Durga]

@Espresso, you say you've played this a lot IRL and so I would have hoped that you would have logically waited until closer to the phase, we almost always have enough people online to change things if you he claims. Doing so now is horribly poor play.

Agreed!

His initial reaction makes a lot of sense in f2f mafia. So its NIA

[Balki Bartokomous]

No matter which way this goes, I'd like to see each E provide his best set of reads before EOD. If you are going to die as town, die while correctly guessing the entire scum team. Otherwise known as a Balki death.

#dielikebalki

[Durga]

So listen. The big overarching problem that makes this whole thing inexcusable in my eyes is that it doesn't protect PR's. If they out then they're as good as dead anyway. No matter how many words you put on screen to defend the concept, that's the only direction that can head.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying a PR dying at night is worse than the town lynching a PR? If not, I don't see why you have a problem with the Premise.

You raise a valid concern about outing PRs, and I touch on it later in my post... but it doesn't really have to do with the Premise.

I'm saying it's equally bad and I don't know how you don't get it.

Wtf. Lynching a PR is SO MUCH WORSE than a PR getting NK'd. If we lynch a PR then scum might nk another PR and we lose 2 PR

[FlaviusAetius]

@Espresso your Part II isn't looking hot at all
You basically just said if et claims PR he is scum sigh does that mean in your view he isn't scum right now?

Also your "It's too early criticism" response, Im not buying it

[EspressoPatronum]

No matter which way this goes, I'd like to see each E provide his best set of reads before EOD. If you are going to die as town, die while correctly guessing the entire scum team. Otherwise known as a Balki death.

#dielikebalki

Good call. I'll hold off for a bit and give people time to read through the other stuff first.

I'll post my reads a few hours before EOD.

[FlaviusAetius]

Lol @EP for writing an essay. Reminds me of the time I wrote an essay on Rdrivera vs Flash in M37 that ended the game. If you write an essay only a few people will actually read it, just tell us in one or two paragraphs what your thoughts were about the PR claim thing.

Usually if someone writes an essay it means their town but in this case, I'm not too sure, since I think et and Espresso are going to be writing essays because they're on the line

[TrPrado]

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying a PR dying at night is worse than the town lynching a PR? If not, I don't see why you have a problem with the Premise.

You raise a valid concern about outing PRs, and I touch on it later in my post... but it doesn't really have to do with the Premise.

I'm saying it's equally bad and I don't know how you don't get it.

Wtf. Lynching a PR is SO MUCH WORSE than a PR getting NK'd. If we lynch a PR then scum might nk another PR and we lose 2 PR

The key word is might. It also presumes the worst case scenario of everyone jumping on a PR and forcing him to out whereas if we didn't they wouldn't see the need. And yet there's a whole strategy talk about doing it absolutely right now. "The Premise" is poisoning the well and guaranteeing a PR goes down.