M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

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xorxes
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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#921 Post by xorxes » Sun May 19, 2019 1:22 pm

bozotheclown wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:13 am
xorxes wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 11:09 pm
EspressoPatronum wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 11:03 pm
Wow, nice! Very surprised at the turn of events - Damo wasn't on my radar at all.

Good call @Xorxes and the others who made it happen last minute. I'll have to go comb through the past few pages to see how you figured it out. Was it just the one post re: bozo's play, or was there more?
Nobody but me voted him for that, so there must have been something else.
xorxes seemed to imply that he did not know why other players suspected damo, but at least 4 players gave reasons they scum read damo before xorxes jumped on him for his read of me. The growing suspicion of damo could have led xorxes to start bussing him.
bozo, I know I can never regain your trust after that game when I buddied you so hard it was disgusting, but try to be more objective here. Damo was not getting lynched without my intervention D1.

You jumped on me for saying ND could be bussing even though apparently he (never?) busses, and now you say I could have been bussing the godfather even though I don't bus either?

Anyway, you will see the light in time, so I'm not too worried.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#922 Post by xorxes » Sun May 19, 2019 1:32 pm

bozotheclown wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:24 am
Percy Williams wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:19 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:13 am


xorxes seemed to imply that he did not know why other players suspected damo, but at least 4 players gave reasons they scum read damo before xorxes jumped on him for his read of me. The growing suspicion of damo could have led xorxes to start bussing him.
That's possible, but seems like a really gusty, unlikely move. The wagon needed a push to get started, and without forces I don't think that would have happened. It would mean Xorxes on behalf of the mafia team decided to trade a teammate and a possibility to mislynch innocently, for major town points.I find this unlikely.
Yes, that is the general consensus, which is why it could be a good play. If xorxes is scum and gets some mislynches out of bussing the GF, it could win him the game. damo may not have been lynched D1 without xorxes, but he would have been lynched soon.
I should definitely not be cleared, and if teacon is not scum I should definitely become a suspect. But suspecting me now is ridiculous.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#923 Post by EspressoPatronum » Sun May 19, 2019 1:37 pm

xorxes wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:12 pm
ND wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:00 am
Drugna, the only one panicked is you as your behavior has demonstrated.

Although I don't know why Teacon would save that about vapor.
They both probably have PR claims prepared.

If teacon claims doc at EOD, and real doc doesn't counteclaim, we lynch Vapor please.
Unless a big Vapor push happens, it doesn't look like he's on the table for today. Votes are 4 for Durga, 3 for teacon, 1 for xorxes, and 1 for Vash.

Durga will probably swap to teacon in self defence, making it 4-4, so it's really all about where @bozo, @emc, and @Moscow vote.

If teacon or Durga claims doc (without a cc), then people will probably swap to the other.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#924 Post by xorxes » Sun May 19, 2019 1:39 pm

bozotheclown wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:40 am
Even if xorxes is town, I question his case on teacon. There is reason to suspect Durga from D1 for pushing ND and defending damo early, but Vashta looks worse on both of those points.

I think there are too many questionable things adding up for xorxes.

##VOTE xorxes
What exactly worries you about my case on teacon?

Do you think town teacon spends the night concocting that wall of text instead of interacting organically in the thread like he could have done?

Do you believe he is genuine when he says he thought my case on him was a ruse to try to save my life from the nightkill?

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#925 Post by EspressoPatronum » Sun May 19, 2019 1:39 pm

Note - my post at #923 doesn't consider EOD shenanigans. I have no idea how to predict that.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#926 Post by xorxes » Sun May 19, 2019 1:59 pm

teacon7 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:44 am
xorxes wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 10:14 pm
He was very reluctant to vote for damo until I pressured him.
That's just not true.

xorx was not responsible for moving people onto damo.
Maybe true, but at least I tried.
bozo, rdriv, xorx, and I all voted damo for our own reasons.
bozo and rivera voted for their own reasons and I had nothing to do with that.

I asked ND explicitly to vote for damo but presumably he would have done so in self defense anyway. Even if he is a goon, he would be forced to vote for the godfather when he is the only viable counterwagon, or else he implicates both.

I did ask you to vote for damo, and you may have voted for your own reasons but you took your time, and it just happens that you voted just after I asked you to.

I asked Vapor to vote for his scumread damo but he never did.

I don't think I asked emc to vote specifically for damo, I think I just asked him to vote. He's really annoying in always waiting until the last minute to make up his mind.

I don't remember if I asked Moscow to vote for damo, but I did ask him about his take on him.

So yes, I was the one pushing for that lynch.
damo turned out to be scum, but xorx' initial evidence on him seemed ... thin. It was based on similar phrasing. That's enough for a hunch, but not enough warrant grabbing towncred for leading a lynch.
Fine, let's call it a hunch.

Now my hunch is teacon. Why stop having hunches when I'm on a roll?
xorx even got challenged by people who didn't see his case being as strong as he thought. I challenged him on that anyway. so did vapor, iirc.

@xorx - how were you so sure damo was scum? how'd you know so quickly and so confidently?
The wording of his read of bozo made it obvious. His reaction to being called out confirmed it beyond any doubt.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#927 Post by xorxes » Sun May 19, 2019 2:28 pm

teacon7 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 12:01 pm
I was townreading vapor pretty hard (I thought vapor was the cop, actually. he seemed like he was softing it.)
What do you think of Vapor now that you know he was not the cop?
I waited to move because emc hadn't voted yet. I didn't want him to re-tie the vote. I kept asking him to vote because I didn't want him to come in after me and tie the thing up again.
Imagine if he had voted for ND though. You would have been forced to vote for ND to prevent a tie, which you didn't want to do!
so i didn't move earlier. I was waiting for emc.
I believe that to be true. If emc had voted for ND you would have had the perfect excuse not to vote for damo.
at exactly T-0:15 minutes to EoD1, ignoring durga's call to start new wagons, and not because xorx said anything, I moved to my second tier of lynch candidates. I didn't want the vote to tie.
Maybe it wasn't because I said anything, but the sequence was:
xorxes wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:44 pm
teacon, you should be either pushing hard for Percy or vote for whichever of ND or damo you find scummier.
teacon7 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:45 pm
alright. ##vote damo.


BUT attendant to this circumstance:
I'm mildly unsettled that durga tried to start two other wagons in the last hour or so of the day. one on xorx, another on percy. Why is she keen to abandon ND? why not move to damo to break the tie?
I took the "alright" as an acknowledgment of what I had just said, but maybe it wasn't.

And the BUT indicated your willingness to do something else if given the chance of an out.
my other scum candidate (emc) wasn't a wagon, but I could break a tie by voting for damo.

I know xorx wants credit for the damo lynch, but it was tied, and I broke that tie.


@xorx - If I was scum, why would I have left percy at all?
Because if you had stayed you would have looked even scummier.
why not sit there and let others cause chaos? I didn't have to move. I wasn't any more responsible for breaking ties at EoD than you were. my motion, not yours, put damo ahead of ND.
But you had damo as a scumread. If you didn't break the tie you would have looked terrible. The real question is why you didn't do it much earlier.
@xorx - so here's what I still don't get, and I think you have the experience to be able to answer - why would any scum bus their GF on d1?
Maybe you told us the answer yourself:
teacon7 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:21 pm
Vaporwave wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:03 pm
teacon7 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:12 pm
What did you learn from the last game that you'd like to apply here?
to listen more to my own instinct and look twice over people's posts because first impressions can be wrong
Sounds good to me. re-reads are important, gut reactions are good starters, but it's worth being aware of our own biases. fwiw, another insight I had from the last game was: tunneling is bad town play. It isn't really alignment indicative, because poor town play =/= scum.

It was strange watching a basically pure vanilla game. I wonder how different the dynamics are here with 1-off cop/doc/hooker. I bet scum tries to draw a scan onto their godfather.

Anyway, do you want to join me in lynching ND?
You wanted him to be scumread so he would be a good candidate for a scan, you just didn't expect that your weak scumread would practically force you to lynch him in the end.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#928 Post by xorxes » Sun May 19, 2019 2:39 pm

EspressoPatronum wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:37 pm
xorxes wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:12 pm
ND wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:00 am
Drugna, the only one panicked is you as your behavior has demonstrated.

Although I don't know why Teacon would save that about vapor.
They both probably have PR claims prepared.

If teacon claims doc at EOD, and real doc doesn't counteclaim, we lynch Vapor please.
Unless a big Vapor push happens, it doesn't look like he's on the table for today. Votes are 4 for Durga, 3 for teacon, 1 for xorxes, and 1 for Vash.

Durga will probably swap to teacon in self defence, making it 4-4, so it's really all about where @bozo, @emc, and @Moscow vote.

If teacon or Durga claims doc (without a cc), then people will probably swap to the other.
I'm pretty sure teacon will claim doc if he is leading at the end, he said something at some point that I took as a hint that he is a PR.

I wouldn't be surprised if in the night wall there's a hidden claim of being the cop or the doc, although apparently Vapor is the one that had the cop claim in store. They obviously couldn't have known rivera would flip cop.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#929 Post by Vaporwave » Sun May 19, 2019 3:09 pm

##UNVOTE teacon

could be the bodyguard

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#930 Post by Vaporwave » Sun May 19, 2019 3:11 pm

let's get back to 1 scumsuspect all day Mister MoscowFleet

##VOTE Moscow

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#931 Post by Vaporwave » Sun May 19, 2019 3:12 pm

teacon, either you're a PR aka our last role left, ze bodycam

or you're a mafia who sent ze hooker to visit me because you thought I was cop

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#932 Post by xorxes » Sun May 19, 2019 3:27 pm

Vaporwave wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:12 pm
teacon, either you're a PR aka our last role left, ze bodycam

or you're a mafia who sent ze hooker to visit me because you thought I was cop
Are you claiming you were roleblocked?

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#933 Post by Vaporwave » Sun May 19, 2019 3:38 pm

##VOTE Durga

seems like nobody would be interested in Moscow

my final vote, I won't be posting today

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#934 Post by Vaporwave » Sun May 19, 2019 3:40 pm

scum was online EOD given that damo was absent, guaranteed 1 or both of them were online during EOD

vote between teacon or Durga, teacon pocketed me greatly with his recent posts

so I had to move on Durga, sheeping ND to glory

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#935 Post by EspressoPatronum » Sun May 19, 2019 4:02 pm

xorxes wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:27 pm
Vaporwave wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:12 pm
teacon, either you're a PR aka our last role left, ze bodycam

or you're a mafia who sent ze hooker to visit me because you thought I was cop
Are you claiming you were roleblocked?
@Vapor you didn't answer his question.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#936 Post by ND » Sun May 19, 2019 4:25 pm

Bozo says (Pp. 46): “There is reason to suspect Durga from D1 for pushing ND and defending damo early, but Vashta looks worse on both of those points.”

I am inclined to agree. Obviously. Durga is my top scumread, but Vashta is also a mess which I will talk about. Bozo also spends some time questioning Xorxes’ motivations. This is just as valid as Xorxes questioning Teacon’s. Questioning anyone and everyone is a must. Although I feel that there is enough supporting evidence to suggest both Teacon and Xorxes are town. Although there is circumstantial evidence that either could be scum playing very well. This is a hard call that we don’t need to make right now. If there was nothing else, then fine, but there are other candidates with documented evidence against them. For me, going after either right now is not optimal imo. I feel that there are better candidates in Durga at a minimum to outweigh anything against either Xorxes or Teacon.

Vashta post on Pp. 46 is interesting. He gives some explanation for his play D1. He is trying to get us to buy into the “restated old stuff and -snip- I doubt I’d do that as scum.” This is pretty telling. Seems to me that he wants to create an image of himself as unimaginative lazy lurker but one with town intentions.

However, then on Pp. 46 end of his post he actually seems to get it. “Meanwhile, Durga actually did try to get a percy wagon going and seemed to be pretty adamant about the ND lynch (and very concerned about the deadline), which is exactly what a scum would have to be in that situation. Meanwhile Espresso just wasn't around at EoD not completely exonerating, but given I know I am innocent and all other factors, gonna -snip vote for durag”

On one level he is propping up this image of himself as a nothing burger but town. Which is so suspicious. On the other hand he is getting what I am thinking. So I am so conflicted on Vashta. Like in a nutshell this is a condensed statement basically doing the same thing I did EON. For all I know he is just repeating what I already said in shortform to blend in. That’s pretty scary.

Xorxes continues his case against Durga and responds to Bozo on 47 hard. Top of Pp. 47, Xorxes says “now you say I could have been bussing the godfather even though I don’t bus either?” In reference to me not bussing and him also saying he doesn’t. I’ve played a lot of games since M8, GMed, etc. I can’t think of a time he has seriously bussed someone, but it’s not impossible that he has. Xorxes says, “But suspecting me now is ridiculous.” I think Xorxes is town, but really we are all suspect to some degree. Some way more than others. Getting complacent is not a good idea.

Espresso: “If teacon or Durga claims doc (without a cc), then people will probably swap to the other.” Xorxes says something similar on 47. What’s it with you guys even floating these possibilities? I am almost expecting it to happen now. That’s not good. At all. If it happens in the last five minutes of the phase then it is probably bogus. If they are the real doctor and they are under serious threat of lynch they should claim at least an hour beforehand so the claim can be evaluated.

Xorxes: “Now my hunch is teacon. Why stop having hunches when I'm on a roll?”

Fair, and you have a case. I disagree with parts of it, but it’s a case. Still, there is a big difference in Damo and Teacon. Teacon seems, to me, whether you agree or not to be trying to deduce and solve the game. Damo wasn’t and was scum indicative from the start.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#937 Post by ND » Sun May 19, 2019 4:29 pm

so boyz in short there is some weird shit going on right now.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#938 Post by teacon7 » Sun May 19, 2019 4:52 pm

I'm around for a bit and catching up on the thread.

I'll leave this window open to answer questions. AMA.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#939 Post by Percy Williams » Sun May 19, 2019 4:53 pm

I would like to establish that if Durga is scum, Nd And I are not scum. Obviously it isn't as solid a case for Nd, as they have a history of hating each other, so Durga may want him dead anyways, and it may have been more suspicious to not attack him, with Durga expecting a different wagon to win all along, but planning to win town cred for pioneering the ND lynch. But if Durga is scum I am clearly her safe town counterwagon.

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Re: M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

#940 Post by teacon7 » Sun May 19, 2019 4:53 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 10:16 pm
Durga get some scum points for trying to get a wagon going on Percy later.
Please note: the cop had the same feeling I did about durga trying to get new wagons formed at EoD. scummy.

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