MAFIA 43 - GAME THREAD

[xorxes]

Attorney as scum make sense, scum need to find another wagon to push at EOD if both brain and Attorney are scum

Your wagon was exclusively or almost exclusively towny though, by the looks of it.

[Nephthys]

Scum - Tham, Fox, Ezio, Attorney
Weak Scum - Ike, ND, Damo
Null - Tom, Durga, flash, worcej
Town - Xorx, Vecna, Vapor, Squigs, Rd, EMC, bozo

Lots of non-con claims in your scum pile. Have you taken that into account at all?

No, I agree with Durga in that It's better to look for scum and then use the cons/non-cons as a secondary. I think it will help us more late game than now anyway.

[Vaporwave]

currently have nothing to say for that wagon other than my gut feeling on moscow

lettuce create a different wagon

[xorxes]

Attorney as scum make sense, scum need to find another wagon to push at EOD if both brain and Attorney are scum

Your wagon was exclusively or almost exclusively towny though, by the looks of it.

And there's also the question of why did attorney vote for brainbomb instead of for you.

[Nephthys]

Anyway, I'd forgotten about your forced claim. So I need to take that into consideration.

But there's no way Bozo did what he did unless he knew something.

Are you saying he's scum?

Option 1: Bozo is scum and he tried to tie the vote to protect Rdrivera (hoping to protect Brain as well). Which is a huge risk for scum, although if it succeeded, he'd have looked pretty good for lynching Brain and whether it was scum-v-scum wagons would have been a hypothetical question... If he's scum, he got the worst outcome with BB's modkill, and he couldn't have seen that coming, so I think that makes this likely.

Option 2: Bozo is town and he badly misplayed his last-minute vote, and we got lucky that BB was mod-killed. Despite that I posted after him to note the tie, a decision to change a vote takes a little longer to consider (and you still run the risk of someone else trying to break the tie in the other decision). But I have also seen Bozo save himself with last minute votes as scum, and he has timed them pretty much like this one. That is not to say he's scum this time, but is to say that he knows what he's doing with a last minute vote and knows just how likely it is that anyone could/would counter his vote.

Other factors: Bozo has claimed non-conservative.

I think option 1 is more likely, particularly considering that it was a fluke that BB got mod-killed. If he hadn't claimed non-conservative, I'd be more aggressive on this (I think "you tie, you die" should still be in play even if there's a modkill). As it stands, though, I think looking among the conservative claims is a better strategy than tunneling on him when I'm unlikely to get traction on it.

I find this a little sus.

You think he should die and want to lynch him but just because he claimed non-con you wont entertain it?

This is the exact reason I don't think we should be based everything off con/non-con right now.

[Percy Williams]

Percy Williams, has he actually provided any content yet? From memory he's town read flash and thinks vapor isnt being defensive. I really wanna see some reads but until I do he's in my top scum pile.

Scum - Tham, Fox, Ezio, Attorney
Weak Scum - Ike, ND, Damo
Null - Tom, Durga, flash, worcej
Town - Xorx, Vecna, Vapor, Squigs, Rd, EMC, bozo
[/quote]

To be clear, besides little comments throughout the game, my main read was here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 655#p62655.
I also didn't see myself on the read list above.

As far as I understand the mechanics, there are five total mafia one non con and three remaining conservative plus brainbomb (conservative) so focusing conservative is useful, but there is a mafia member in the non con pile.

[Nephthys]

Are you saying he's scum?

Option 1: Bozo is scum and he tried to tie the vote to protect Rdrivera (hoping to protect Brain as well). Which is a huge risk for scum, although if it succeeded, he'd have looked pretty good for lynching Brain and whether it was scum-v-scum wagons would have been a hypothetical question... If he's scum, he got the worst outcome with BB's modkill, and he couldn't have seen that coming, so I think that makes this likely.

Option 2: Bozo is town and he badly misplayed his last-minute vote, and we got lucky that BB was mod-killed. Despite that I posted after him to note the tie, a decision to change a vote takes a little longer to consider (and you still run the risk of someone else trying to break the tie in the other decision). But I have also seen Bozo save himself with last minute votes as scum, and he has timed them pretty much like this one. That is not to say he's scum this time, but is to say that he knows what he's doing with a last minute vote and knows just how likely it is that anyone could/would counter his vote.

Other factors: Bozo has claimed non-conservative.

I think option 1 is more likely, particularly considering that it was a fluke that BB got mod-killed. If he hadn't claimed non-conservative, I'd be more aggressive on this (I think "you tie, you die" should still be in play even if there's a modkill). As it stands, though, I think looking among the conservative claims is a better strategy than tunneling on him when I'm unlikely to get traction on it.

It was only a misplay if it turns out rdrivera is scum.

I think if you knew I tied the vote and had time to point it out, you had time to untie the vote if you thought ending it a tie was so bad in that situation. How about "leave the vote tied, you die".

Didn't even see this but possible scumslip? If one turns out to be scum the other one is going waaaay up my lynch list

[ND]

I am so lost

[Ezio]

I am so lost

Most of it doesn't matter. I'm PR and I made a case against neph. Go read it.

[Foxcastle]

Percy Williams, has he actually provided any content yet? From memory he's town read flash and thinks vapor isnt being defensive. I really wanna see some reads but until I do he's in my top scum pile.

Scum - Tham, Fox, Ezio, Attorney
Weak Scum - Ike, ND, Damo
Null - Tom, Durga, flash, worcej
Town - Xorx, Vecna, Vapor, Squigs, Rd, EMC, bozo

To be clear, besides little comments throughout the game, my main read was here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 655#p62655.
I also didn't see myself on the read list above.

As far as I understand the mechanics, there are five total mafia one non con and three remaining conservative plus brainbomb (conservative) so focusing conservative is useful, but there is a mafia member in the non con pile.
[/quote]

Ezio is an un-cc'd PM claim backed up by the person he says he appointed.

[ND]

okay

[xorxes]

As far as I understand the mechanics, there are five total mafia one non con and three remaining conservative plus brainbomb (conservative) so focusing conservative is useful, but there is a mafia member in the non con pile.

We don't know that. There is one more conservative claim than conservative roles, so at least one person who is not conservative has claimed conservative. A good guess is that that person is the DUP Mafia.

[Foxcastle]

Scum - Tham, Fox, Ezio, Attorney
Weak Scum - Ike, ND, Damo
Null - Tom, Durga, flash, worcej
Town - Xorx, Vecna, Vapor, Squigs, Rd, EMC, bozo

To be clear, besides little comments throughout the game, my main read was here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 655#p62655.
I also didn't see myself on the read list above.

As far as I understand the mechanics, there are five total mafia one non con and three remaining conservative plus brainbomb (conservative) so focusing conservative is useful, but there is a mafia member in the non con pile.

Ezio is an un-cc'd PM claim backed up by the person he says he appointed.

After pouncing, I see that apparently Percy was trying (and failing) to quote someone, so... nevermind.

[Nephthys]

Attorney, - still not giving me good vibes don't like how he never really presents reasoning with his statements. D1 still sits badly. Probably scum

bozotheclown, voted to save rd right at the end, a bold move that I currently think may be too daring as scum - townlean

brainbomb - Dead scum

damo666, Not too much content, A lot of clarifying and mechanics weak scumlean

Durga, I dont really know what to think here, I need the time to properly read up on her. Null for now

e.m.c^42,Very different playstyle to last game, a lot more confident which I like, although I'm wondering it comes from being scum and having more information to start with. Depsite that, I've liked the analysis he's put in so far. The one thing that does get me is he said he doesn't really want to jump on the Rd wagon then rides it to the end. I find that a little concerning considering how close Rd got to being lynched. I suppose weak town though.

Ezio, Puts some defense on brain with an hour to go wanting to lynch a guy "that asked for low posters to come online". Scum

Flash2015, not really getting anything from him... Null

Foxcastle, Defended brain, didn't even really consider him as a possible scum. One post really got me where he said his lynch pref (A > Rd > Ez) despite never mentioning Ezio before that. Scum

MoscowFleet/Tom,- Not enough to go on

ND, All his posts were mechanics until his vote. Scumlean

Percy Williams, has he actually provided any content yet? From memory he's town read flash and thinks vapor isnt being defensive. I really wanna see some reads but until I do he's in my top scum pile.

RagingIke, Votes Vapor in an attempt to get him to use his votes better then just disappears for 15hrs. Seemed to rise a little to the B/D thing. Weak scumlean

rdrivera, There was too much movement EOD esp with brain's dying vote that I just don't see how he can be scum. Hope to see more engagement when RL clears up.

Squigs44, as much as I love this guy his scum game is kinda average. Here he seems more driven and engaged. I like it. Town

thamrick, Also not much to go on but after looking into his first post there was all sorts of bad. Scum

Vaporwave, Getting better, starting to make some good contributions. I'm backing w/t with Attorney, townish esp with claim

Vecna, Good analysis and poking, town

worcej, Claims waay too early in a way that makes me think town. HIs vote on Durga gives me pause though as it seemed really hedgy. Null

xorxes. Townleader, I'm not prepared to consider he's pulling some ridiculous play yet.

Scum - Tham, Fox, Ezio, Attorney
Weak Scum - Ike, ND, Damo
Null - Tom, Durga, flash, worcej
Town - Xorx, Vecna, Vapor, Squigs, Rd, EMC, bozo

Surprised you didnt question my defending of brainbomb in the slightest. If anyone put in the most effort to divert the lynch from him, surely it has to have been me?

As I stated in my post immediately before this, I had 15 minutes in which to try and put together a post that normally takes me ~2hrs. I obviously missed things. As you will notice I had Vecna (rip) as one of my top town reads. I feel there is less need to justify my town reads as there is scum.

That being said, from a quick read, you pushed rd, you didn't try to divert from brain. Perhaps if someone can quote some stuff for me?

[xorxes]

Surprised you didnt question my defending of brainbomb in the slightest. If anyone put in the most effort to divert the lynch from him, surely it has to have been me?

As I stated in my post immediately before this, I had 15 minutes in which to try and put together a post that normally takes me ~2hrs. I obviously missed things. As you will notice I had Vecna (rip) as one of my top town reads. I feel there is less need to justify my town reads as there is scum.

That being said, from a quick read, you pushed rd, you didn't try to divert from brain. Perhaps if someone can quote some stuff for me?

Are you talking to Vecna?

[rdrivera2005]

So, my fellow EU Negotiator want me to bring something to your attention:

I don't know if I can quote him, so I will try to use my own words:
The scum who shared his QT on D1 didn't said a word in the QT, but the EUN said Hi.
He then noticed that later that day, Vaporware said he only like people who say "hi" and he did it in quotes like that in the main thread. This leads him to believe he was fishing for the EU Negotiator.
The quote from Vapor is this:

can we please use 'Hi' I really prefer the American style

it sounds much nicer as a greeting

anyway, Vecna feels town

xorxes is also town

It's on page 12

So, our brave EU Negotiator believes Vapor is scum fishing for the EU and wants me to share this here

[Ezio]

I think the EU negotiator is paranoid, but thanks for sharing.

[Nephthys]

Case on Nephys: HIs read on me in his EoN reads makes absolutely no sense and is absolutely indicative of scum trying to fake a reads list.
“Ezio, Puts some defense on brain with an hour to go wanting to lynch a guy "that asked for low posters to come online". Scum “
While technically accurate at the surface level, it is absolutely not looking for meaning/reasoning behind the actions.

As previously stated, I had 15 minutes. These were rushed an not as detailed as I would have liked. Should I have had more time this is what yours would have been more detailed (and I would be voting for you should you not have claimed)

The person I was referring to was Attorney, who was high on Neph’s scum list himself. Who was, in fact, the very person Neph ended the day on. Odd to scumread someone for pushing/voting someone you think is scum. It is far more likely Neph simply forgot he was supposed to be scumreading Attorney and looked at the surface of what I said and called it “scummy”.

Its almost like I was looking into the reasoning behind the vote...

I honestly couldn't give less of a shit who you are voting. Scum bus and I misread people. I think its a lot better to look at why you are voting, and to me, voting someone for asking low posters to come in is beyond weak.

Furthermore, Nephys himself went from defending BB earlier in the day
“
As for brain, what Tom said last game really stood out to me. There's no point lynching someone who will obv themselves easily. While overnight he went nuts and I'm suspicious, I'm not 100% yet. Based on last game (sorry brain), I really rate his scum game because its easy to pick up. I think he's best left alone for today put scrutinized tomorrow.
-Neph
“
to this beauty of a hedge near EoD:
“
Last game it was painfully clear. Now not so much, usually whenever I scumread [Brainbomb] but doubt he ends up being town. I dunno though, he doesn't seem to be doing much.
-Neph
“
If that doesn’t scream “I don’t know what I’m supposed to say when my scum teammate is the leading lynch candidate” I don’t know what does. Townies, when they have an argument like that, usually act based on their stated opinions. Neph did not. We have to ask ourselves why, and the most likely answer seems to be that he was a scum partner.

This is the part of the case I love the most.

Your first quote; I never said he was town, I never stated I didn't think he was scum. I was merely saying that he wasn't the best lynch D1. Everyone knows brain is actually rather good at solving games whether or not he sticks to the right team once he's found them is another story though. I find his theories to be useful late game as they give me different perspectives. For this reason I actually quite like having him around near the end if town. This would give him a chance to show us he isn't town.

For your second; I agree with why most people are scumreading him. He didn't contribute much. However, to my knowledge, there hasn't been a game where I havent wanted to lynch him within the first two days. Last game I picked him early D1, here not so much therefore this reinforces my first statement you quoted about how I thought it best to leave him for another day.

All this screams is that I genuinely didn't think brain was a good D1 lynch, until he started copying the bot and claimed scum. I would lynch anyone for that.

[Nephthys]

Surprised you didnt question my defending of brainbomb in the slightest. If anyone put in the most effort to divert the lynch from him, surely it has to have been me?

As I stated in my post immediately before this, I had 15 minutes in which to try and put together a post that normally takes me ~2hrs. I obviously missed things. As you will notice I had Vecna (rip) as one of my top town reads. I feel there is less need to justify my town reads as there is scum.

That being said, from a quick read, you pushed rd, you didn't try to divert from brain. Perhaps if someone can quote some stuff for me?

Are you talking to Vecna?

Im answering a question that was put to me. I don't think it matters much whether he's dead or alive.

[Ezio]

As far as I understand the mechanics, there are five total mafia one non con and three remaining conservative plus brainbomb (conservative) so focusing conservative is useful, but there is a mafia member in the non con pile.

We don't know that. There is one more conservative claim than conservative roles, so at least one person who is not conservative has claimed conservative. A good guess is that that person is the DUP Mafia.

Seems plausible/likely. As long as there's not a liberal or no party claiming conservative we've still got all the mafia.