teacon7 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 5:28 am
xorxes wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:22 pm
teacon7 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:02 pm
So your case is, if i'm hearing you right:
I'm scum with godfather damo
I *deliberately* say out loud that scum are trying to draw a scan onto the godfather
I read it more as a suggestion to your teammates than as a description of what was going on.
That's a pretty convenient read for you.
I was trying to soft suggestions to the guy I thought was cop. I didn't know if ND was playing lightning rod as a town reaction test, or as scum godfather.
Why did you need to "soft" it? Why not say it loud and clear?
xorxes wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:22 pm
I scumread damo and not ND in an attempt to draw a scan onto damo
and then i kill damo because I'm have no other options
Yes, but of course at the time you scumread damo (very weakly) and you said you would not lynch ND (after trying to get people to vote for him and seeing a wagon forming fast, maybe you got scared that you would be held responsible and so came up with the reaction test story) there was no way for you to know that those were going to be basically the only options at EOD.
I was the the second person on ND. that's not a fast forming wagon. I left ND when a) emc gave me an indication he wasn't just voting for the easy option, and b) I followed my copread. ND had 3 total votes. that's not a fast forming wagon. look at the vote tracker.
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/game_st ... =day&num=1
btw, you're Affirming the Consequent again.
What am I affirming?
You're saying:
he had to move to damo,
therefore he must have accidentally set up the conditions wherein he had to move to damo.
wait maybe it's post hoc ergo propter hoc.
someone read the articles and lmk which one it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
Nonsense, I'm not saying anything like that.
I'm saying: The conditions were such that he pretty much was forced to move to damo, therefore his moving to damo doesn't tell us anything about his alignment and can't be used in his defense.
Are you so tunnelled that you can't see another cause for me moving to damo? or are you unwilling to consider alternatives: town teacon moves from one person in his lynch pool to another?
If you were town, moving to damo (even earlier than you did) was the natural thing to do. I have no idea where you're getting the impression that I deny that. Are you saying that I scumread you because you voted for damo? Where do you get that from?
xorxes wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:22 pm
The argument is flawed in several ways.
FIRST:
If I was scum and trying to draw a copscan onto the godfather, how does that somehow single out damo against any of the other players I had a light scumread on?
You couldn't guarantee it, of course, just facilitate it.
So your argument here is
at least 66% more improbable.
Which is more probable:
scum!teacon openly coaches buddies D1,
or
town!teacon, who is actively engaging in a variety of conversations, points out a game-mechanics angle for the cop to consider.
?
HM....
I don't know why you needed to make it so subtle if it was meant for the cop.
xorxes wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:22 pm
Not only you, I also told Vapor and everyone who was there. You think by telling you I was setting you a trap? Explain!
I'd have to go back and look to see if you called out to anyone else by name.
Make sure you do.
And even if I hadn't, what would be scummy about singling you out? Was I trying to frame you for lynching a scum? It makes no sense at all.
Recall that during EoD I did post copy/pastes of the "who is online" list at the bottom. At several points there were lots of guests, emc, etc. notably, you were still posting and your name didn't appear down there. How reliable is that listing at the bottom of "who is online" ...?
Not very, I understand. I think there's a setting where you don't show up. Or if you are inactive for x amount of time, or something like that.
At the time, I was reading your calls for people to consolidate to other wagons as a pretty towny move.
And what makes it less towny now?
xorxes wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:22 pm
What are you talking about? When did I say only you could move? I said for you, your move was pretty much forced. It was also forced for Vapor, but he has the excuse of "I'm so in another planet that I can't be held responsible for my actions". You, on the other hand, were very present in the game. You could not take that out.
My move wasn't forced. Not as scum, not as town.
I was not the only one "very present" at EoD. Other people were a) online, and b) posting. It was far from inevitable that damo would swing. durga was talking about new wagons, and her moving would break the tie. emc hadn't voted yet, which could have broken the tie. heck I could have sat on percy till the flip and someone else would have done something.
Why was I, and not another, forced to do anything at all?
You had stated a scumread of damo. I think Vapor was the only other one who had done so.
You had stated you would not vote for ND, I don't think anyone else had done that.
You were actively participating and what I told you "either push hard for percy or vote for the scummier of damo and ND" made perfect sense, and you could not deny it made perfect sense.
So yes, you had to do something.
Vapor should have done something too, but I don't even know if he was there, and his ramblings can hardly be interpreted as logical discourse, so it's harder to pin anything on him.
Perhaps because every ounce of your shade against me is a convoluted, tinfoil hat framework contingent on scumreading that one action?
Nonsense. That action is NOT the reason I scumread you. And you trying to make it seem as if that is the basis of my scumread is also telling.
xorxes wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:22 pm
You would have looked very bad if you didn't move there, do you disagree?
I don't think I'd have looked any worse than, say, durga, who was talking about starting other wagons... but didn't. Or worse than emc, who wasn't voting.
The question is not who would have looked worse, but whether or not you would have looked bad.
As town, you would vote there for damo without a second thought.
As scum, you have to weigh in a lot of factors, and decide, in very little time, what is the less bad option, because all of your options were bad.
So the option you took is not something that paints you as towny, it's something that is perfectly compatible with either alignment.
xorxes wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:22 pm
In hindsight, you're probably telling yourself you should have done that. At the moment, you probably felt more trapped.
That doesn't really respond to my point, it's just another card to the house of cards you've built on this.
But I bet the scum who DID bus his buddy is wishing he had done something else...
Your defense by attacking me is very ineffective, because if I really did bus damo I did it so thoroughly that it won't be detected until my survival starts looking suspicious. D2 is too early to attack me with that. Your better take is that I'm misguided townie in a tunnel.
You're not just refuting a point about towncred. fwiw, I don't care about towncred. You're using my vote at EoD as the basis for scumreading the majority of my actions so far. Just about every other part of your case depends on this one action being scummy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
Not at all. The basis of my read lies somewhere else. And you have done nothing but confirm it since. Like trying to accuse me of logical fallacies, really?