Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

If you have a game you want to play on the forum, you can do so here.
Forum rules
This is an area for forum games. Please note that to support mafia games players cannot edit their own posts in this forum. Off Topic threads will be relocated or deleted. Issues taking place in forum games should be dealt with by respective game GMs and escalated to the moderators only if absolutely necessary.
Message
Author
xorxes
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:45 am
Karma: 124

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#981 Post by xorxes » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:48 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:24 pm
(1) Why do you think I am scum?
(2) You really think that Vecna and I could be scum together? Is there any evidence in the thread to the contrary that you’re discounting, or do you see no issue at all with that scum pairing?
Your damian read was what set me off. Your talks with Vecna seem so forced, and how you two are dealing with rivera... I may very well be lost. I'm reading Fox at the moment and it is very boring.

xorxes
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:45 am
Karma: 124

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#982 Post by xorxes » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:01 pm

Foxcastle wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:05 pm
I'm scumreading Squigs, because I think it's more likely that he's deliberately trying to cover his scum meta (which he has complained about before) than simply that he decided to try something new with this aggressive questioning approach. Based on a brief comparison to the Tiny Hunt game, I don't buy that this is that same meta. Squigs has complained that he was unhappy with his scum play, so I see motive there to cover it up.

I am leaning scum Ezio because I think his plan for lynching people based on who's good/bad scum/town was off. I mean, the plan was flawed, but also it was off that he proposed it. But it's not a strong read. Also, he has posted more and been more engaged than in previous games, which is different, but then this is a different game, and besides, he's been silent for something like 15 hours now, so who knows if that means/meant anything.

I think Ezio is the more interesting flip, so that's where my vote is now, and also to prompt him to participate if he shows back up before EOD. But given that he hasn't been around to make it more or less interesting, I suspect that he will actually not get a wagon today. (I try not to read too much into when people are around, but I also think it's true that we tend to lynch active players over less active players, so lurking is in fact a good scum strategy early on...)

I'm having a little trouble on Damian, but am leaning scum on. He was super awkward, and that's not scummy in and of itself, but there's something off there. Also, his style and tone is different from what I can tell by a brief comparison to his last town game (M33). After the whole color test, I'm not sure what to think—that was silly (not scummy), and some of his questioning after that has gotten better, and I don't have a real baseline for him.

Balki, Xorxes, and Vecna seem pretty townie. But they are often hard for me to read. Ghug and Flum, too.

Bozo seems like town. Or at least seems like he's not scum. I would not vote for Bozo at this point, but I do want to see how that progresses.

I don't scumread ND and rdrivera, and rdrivera is another player that's hard for me to read, but I usually have a better sense of them as time goes by. (And then there's my old theory that when rdrivera is being scumread by a significant portion of game, he's actually town, and when he's mostly townread is when he's scum... We'll see.)
Fox, how can you write so much without saying anything? I didn't remember this post, but I can see where the scumreads on you are coming from.

I just can't see scum being so extremely and unapologetically hedgy though.

xorxes
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:45 am
Karma: 124

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#983 Post by xorxes » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:11 pm

Foxcastle wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:25 pm
ghug wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:23 pm
Foxcastle wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:52 pm
##VOTE GHUG

The Squigs wagon is interesting. If he's town, it's pretty likely that ghug and/or Bozo are scum; if he's scum (which I think he is), it's possible that Bozo or ghug bussed him anyway. Of those two, Bozo looks scummiest, but ghug is more dangerous...
More dangerous? Aren't you on the record as thinking Ezio's suggestion that we consider anything other than scumminess is bad?
Yep, but that was before there was a situation where I thought there was about a 50 percent chance of you being scum.
I thought I remembered something that had made me townread Fox, and I think it was this conversation with ghug. But that was when I thought ghug was scum. With town ghug, I still think Fox looks good here.

Ezio
Posts: 721
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:54 am
Karma: 73

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#984 Post by Ezio » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:13 pm

ghug wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:01 pm
Ezio, you still haven't answered me about your final post from yesterday.

I'll be a little more straightforward because you're being dense:

You said I'd look bad regardless of Squigs's flip. What was bad?
I'd choose bozo.

Right now I'm thinking scumteam contains Damian and bozo. Why? I think all of the prolific posters in this game are town.

Vecna, balki, me, you, xorxes all seem super Towny.

This leaves damian, Rd, bozo, fox, and rd. Before EoD yesterday I would have said Rd is super more scummy, but I townread Rd for his play today.

I like the vote analysis of the three of them as scum together (all on separate wagons on a town v town day, and on both wagons for the next, far more concentrated day). I need to look at the analysis of the other permutations, and I'll start working through then when I get home.

You asked me why I said you looked bad regardless of how yesterday's EoD flipped. It was because I was scimreading you pretty hard at that point with your defense of RD and I didn't actually do good analysis if squigs flipped town, as evidenced by me needing to do so Mich work today.

xorxes
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:45 am
Karma: 124

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#985 Post by xorxes » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:23 pm

Foxcastle wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:03 pm
I am not going to be able to add a lot today, but will be able to do some rereading and have more to say tomorrow.

Ezio is big question for me now, and I clearly need to just rethink the game. And I'm glad Balki is here and participating, because (and I'm trying to step back and be objective in reading him and not fall into OMGUS) this is his scum meta.
Just finished reading Fox, I'm keeping him in the useless town category for now.

@Fox, you said Vecna is your top candidate for scum from the ND wagon. Can you tell me what's your current read of him now and your reasons?

ghug
Admin
Admin
Posts: 1713
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm
Location: Seattle
Karma: 455

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#986 Post by ghug » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:30 pm

Ezio wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:13 pm
ghug wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:01 pm
Ezio, you still haven't answered me about your final post from yesterday.

I'll be a little more straightforward because you're being dense:

You said I'd look bad regardless of Squigs's flip. What was bad?
I'd choose bozo.

Right now I'm thinking scumteam contains Damian and bozo. Why? I think all of the prolific posters in this game are town.

Vecna, balki, me, you, xorxes all seem super Towny.

This leaves damian, Rd, bozo, fox, and rd. Before EoD yesterday I would have said Rd is super more scummy, but I townread Rd for his play today.

I like the vote analysis of the three of them as scum together (all on separate wagons on a town v town day, and on both wagons for the next, far more concentrated day). I need to look at the analysis of the other permutations, and I'll start working through then when I get home.

You asked me why I said you looked bad regardless of how yesterday's EoD flipped. It was because I was scimreading you pretty hard at that point with your defense of RD and I didn't actually do good analysis if squigs flipped town, as evidenced by me needing to do so Mich work today.
My defense of Rd?

Balki Bartokomous
Posts: 1018
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:15 am
Location: Island of Mypos
Karma: 56

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#987 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:38 pm

xorxes wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:23 pm
Foxcastle wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:03 pm
I am not going to be able to add a lot today, but will be able to do some rereading and have more to say tomorrow.

Ezio is big question for me now, and I clearly need to just rethink the game. And I'm glad Balki is here and participating, because (and I'm trying to step back and be objective in reading him and not fall into OMGUS) this is his scum meta.
Just finished reading Fox, I'm keeping him in the useless town category for now.

@Fox, you said Vecna is your top candidate for scum from the ND wagon. Can you tell me what's your current read of him now and your reasons?
@Xorxes, can you tell us why Foxy is in the useless town category? Isn't Foxy generally a pretty good player?

Balki Bartokomous
Posts: 1018
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:15 am
Location: Island of Mypos
Karma: 56

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#988 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:42 pm

Foxcastle wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:03 pm
And I'm glad Balki is here and participating, because (and I'm trying to step back and be objective in reading him and not fall into OMGUS) this is his scum meta.
@Foxy, let's talk about this. You say that you are "glad that I am here and participating because that is my scum meta"? That's an odd comment.

(1) Do you want me to be scum? Why would you be "glad" about this?

(2) What exactly is my scum meta? To be here and be participating? Is that not my town meta too? Are you saying that you can read my alignment based on my participation level? If so, what is your evidence for that?

xorxes
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:45 am
Karma: 124

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#989 Post by xorxes » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:51 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:38 pm

@Xorxes, can you tell us why Foxy is in the useless town category? Isn't Foxy generally a pretty good player?
I don't know his meta, but in this game I don't think I got anything of use from him yet.

Balki Bartokomous
Posts: 1018
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:15 am
Location: Island of Mypos
Karma: 56

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#990 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:00 pm

xorxes wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:51 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:38 pm

@Xorxes, can you tell us why Foxy is in the useless town category? Isn't Foxy generally a pretty good player?
I don't know his meta, but in this game I don't think I got anything of use from him yet.
Okay, why do you think he is town?

bozotheclown
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:13 am
Karma: 4

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#991 Post by bozotheclown » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:04 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:25 pm
Squigs near EOD2.
Squigs44 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:56 pm
With how the votes are right now, Rdrivera is almost guaranteed scum.
Vote count when Squigs said that:
worcej wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:56 pm
Vote Count:
Squigs44 (5) Fluminator bozotheclown Foxcastle Ezio xorxes
rdrivera2005 (4) Balki Bartokomous ghug Squigs44 damian
Balki Bartokomous (1) Vecna
damian (1) rdrivera2005

Currently Squigs44 is set to be lynched.

You have ~3 minutes.
I think there were 4 town votes on rdrivera at EOD2. What does that tell you about the votes on Squigs?
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.

Durga
Posts: 2402
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 390

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#992 Post by Durga » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:05 pm

♡♡♡♡♡ Vote Count ♡♡♡♡♡
Balki Bartokomous (2) xorxes, bozotheclown
Foxcastle (1) Balki Bartokomous
xorxes (1) Vecna
bozotheclown (1) Ezio

Currently, Balki is set to hasta la vista, baby

Foxcastle
Posts: 1345
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Night Vale
Karma: 203

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#993 Post by Foxcastle » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:09 pm

I'm skimming to catch up. Sorry, but a bunch of work stuff landed on me, so it's not going to be more in depth, but I want to answer questions and should be able to look more carefully at things tomorrow.
xorxes wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:01 pm
Foxcastle wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:05 pm
I'm scumreading Squigs, because I think it's more likely that he's deliberately trying to cover his scum meta (which he has complained about before) than simply that he decided to try something new with this aggressive questioning approach. Based on a brief comparison to the Tiny Hunt game, I don't buy that this is that same meta. Squigs has complained that he was unhappy with his scum play, so I see motive there to cover it up.

I am leaning scum Ezio because I think his plan for lynching people based on who's good/bad scum/town was off. I mean, the plan was flawed, but also it was off that he proposed it. But it's not a strong read. Also, he has posted more and been more engaged than in previous games, which is different, but then this is a different game, and besides, he's been silent for something like 15 hours now, so who knows if that means/meant anything.

I think Ezio is the more interesting flip, so that's where my vote is now, and also to prompt him to participate if he shows back up before EOD. But given that he hasn't been around to make it more or less interesting, I suspect that he will actually not get a wagon today. (I try not to read too much into when people are around, but I also think it's true that we tend to lynch active players over less active players, so lurking is in fact a good scum strategy early on...)

I'm having a little trouble on Damian, but am leaning scum on. He was super awkward, and that's not scummy in and of itself, but there's something off there. Also, his style and tone is different from what I can tell by a brief comparison to his last town game (M33). After the whole color test, I'm not sure what to think—that was silly (not scummy), and some of his questioning after that has gotten better, and I don't have a real baseline for him.

Balki, Xorxes, and Vecna seem pretty townie. But they are often hard for me to read. Ghug and Flum, too.

Bozo seems like town. Or at least seems like he's not scum. I would not vote for Bozo at this point, but I do want to see how that progresses.

I don't scumread ND and rdrivera, and rdrivera is another player that's hard for me to read, but I usually have a better sense of them as time goes by. (And then there's my old theory that when rdrivera is being scumread by a significant portion of game, he's actually town, and when he's mostly townread is when he's scum... We'll see.)
Fox, how can you write so much without saying anything? I didn't remember this post, but I can see where the scumreads on you are coming from.

I just can't see scum being so extremely and unapologetically hedgy though.
I find it sometimes helps to think out loud (and sometimes not helpful, but I don't think it's ever been harmful), and I'm honest about what I don't know. There are margins of uncertainty around things, and the game (mafia in general) continues to surprise me even when I am certain. Faking certainty seems like about the least useful thing I could do.

Foxcastle
Posts: 1345
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Night Vale
Karma: 203

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#994 Post by Foxcastle » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:09 pm

xorxes wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:23 pm
Foxcastle wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:03 pm
I am not going to be able to add a lot today, but will be able to do some rereading and have more to say tomorrow.

Ezio is big question for me now, and I clearly need to just rethink the game. And I'm glad Balki is here and participating, because (and I'm trying to step back and be objective in reading him and not fall into OMGUS) this is his scum meta.
Just finished reading Fox, I'm keeping him in the useless town category for now.

@Fox, you said Vecna is your top candidate for scum from the ND wagon. Can you tell me what's your current read of him now and your reasons?
I don't think I said that? Vecna has seemed consistently townie to me.

Balki Bartokomous
Posts: 1018
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:15 am
Location: Island of Mypos
Karma: 56

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#995 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:10 pm

bozotheclown wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:04 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:25 pm
Squigs near EOD2.
Squigs44 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:56 pm
With how the votes are right now, Rdrivera is almost guaranteed scum.
Vote count when Squigs said that:
worcej wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:56 pm
Vote Count:
Squigs44 (5) Fluminator bozotheclown Foxcastle Ezio xorxes
rdrivera2005 (4) Balki Bartokomous ghug Squigs44 damian
Balki Bartokomous (1) Vecna
damian (1) rdrivera2005

Currently Squigs44 is set to be lynched.

You have ~3 minutes.
I think there were 4 town votes on rdrivera at EOD2. What does that tell you about the votes on Squigs?
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.
Okay, what do you think of the Day 2 wagons, Bozo? And what do you think of rdrivera's alignment?

bozotheclown
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:13 am
Karma: 4

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#996 Post by bozotheclown » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:10 pm

Ezio wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:13 pm
ghug wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:01 pm
Ezio, you still haven't answered me about your final post from yesterday.

I'll be a little more straightforward because you're being dense:

You said I'd look bad regardless of Squigs's flip. What was bad?
I'd choose bozo.

Right now I'm thinking scumteam contains Damian and bozo. Why? I think all of the prolific posters in this game are town.

Vecna, balki, me, you, xorxes all seem super Towny.

This leaves damian, Rd, bozo, fox, and rd. Before EoD yesterday I would have said Rd is super more scummy, but I townread Rd for his play today.

I like the vote analysis of the three of them as scum together (all on separate wagons on a town v town day, and on both wagons for the next, far more concentrated day). I need to look at the analysis of the other permutations, and I'll start working through then when I get home.

You asked me why I said you looked bad regardless of how yesterday's EoD flipped. It was because I was scimreading you pretty hard at that point with your defense of RD and I didn't actually do good analysis if squigs flipped town, as evidenced by me needing to do so Mich work today.
Are you saying you only seem like town?

Balki Bartokomous
Posts: 1018
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:15 am
Location: Island of Mypos
Karma: 56

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#997 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:15 pm

@Bozo, can you remind me why you are voting to lynch me?

bozotheclown
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:13 am
Karma: 4

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#998 Post by bozotheclown » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:17 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:10 pm
bozotheclown wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:04 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:25 pm
Squigs near EOD2.

Vote count when Squigs said that:

I think there were 4 town votes on rdrivera at EOD2. What does that tell you about the votes on Squigs?
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence.
Okay, what do you think of the Day 2 wagons, Bozo? And what do you think of rdrivera's alignment?
I am not sure about rdrivera, but my guess is that he is town and that there was scum on both wagons.

bozotheclown
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:13 am
Karma: 4

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#999 Post by bozotheclown » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:19 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:15 pm
@Bozo, can you remind me why you are voting to lynch me?
I think you are the most likely scum of those that did not vote for ND, and I doubt all three scum voted for ND.

Foxcastle
Posts: 1345
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Night Vale
Karma: 203

Re: Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

#1000 Post by Foxcastle » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:27 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:29 pm
Foxcastle wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:57 pm
My scum list is : Squigs, one of ghug or Bozo, and someone I'm not sure about on the ND wagon.

I'm leaning town on Ezio, and to a weaker degree on Rdrivera, Damian, and Flum. Xorxes could be, and Vecna probably is. Balki is null.
I think Foxy was null on me at EOD2 because Foxy is afraid of me.

(he has every reason to be afraid of me. I'm a scary mother effer if you're scum)

In my experience, scum very rarely tries to lead a push on me. Almost always, people who try to push me are town. I find that scum don't try to pick that fight, especially early on. That's one of the reasons why I think Vecna is town.

Foxy has tried to avoid this fight. He wants to part of this.
This is trickery and bullshit. Balki scumreads me from Day 1, doesn't even bother to come up with a case on me, votes me, hides behind others' scumreads of me, and then when I don't bother to respond to his lack of a case, claims that it's scum indicative. At best it's a reaction test.
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:42 pm
Foxcastle wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:03 pm
And I'm glad Balki is here and participating, because (and I'm trying to step back and be objective in reading him and not fall into OMGUS) this is his scum meta.
@Foxy, let's talk about this. You say that you are "glad that I am here and participating because that is my scum meta"? That's an odd comment.

(1) Do you want me to be scum? Why would you be "glad" about this?

(2) What exactly is my scum meta? To be here and be participating? Is that not my town meta too? Are you saying that you can read my alignment based on my participation level? If so, what is your evidence for that?
I do not want you to be scum, because you're very good as scum and I recall how hard it was to catch you.

What I meant with that statement was "I am glad that Balki is here and participating because [his increased posting now compared to his lower participation earlier in the game has produced enough content to convince me that] this is his scum meta."

As to 2, these are not serious questions. I'm sorry that I don't seem to get basic respect from you, even, but you know what I meant.

Your scum meta is to make a lot of noise without doing much solving. Like a sane Brainbomb that never manages to produce a case that you could actually be judged on. Lots of demands for participation, creating lots of leads to follow. And the thing that makes you scary is that in the hands of town, those can be good things that catch scum. But you're not town here, because you're not trying to use them to actually catch scum.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: brainbomb and 2 guests