Mafia XL - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

[bo_sox48]

Well whichever one of you is town isn’t showing that you really care much

I think at this point there is not much I can do. It's obvious to me that it's Bozo and ND. I made a read on both and they practically didn't interact with the other the whole game, until D7. They voted together on Damo D1 and D2, but other then this I can't really connect them.

I fully intend on rereading the entire game between tonight and tomorrow and I am confident that I’ll have it sorted out, but if you aren’t willing to try, I’ll happily wait for the next day and just settle on you today.

##VOTE rdrivera

[rdrivera2005]

Well whichever one of you is town isn’t showing that you really care much

I think at this point there is not much I can do. It's obvious to me that it's Bozo and ND. I made a read on both and they practically didn't interact with the other the whole game, until D7. They voted together on Damo D1 and D2, but other then this I can't really connect them.

I fully intend on rereading the entire game between tonight and tomorrow and I am confident that I’ll have it sorted out, but if you aren’t willing to try, I’ll happily wait for the next day and just settle on you today.

##VOTE rdrivera

If you want to lose the game, go ahead and lynch me, there won't be another day. If you wanted to question me I will be more then happy to answer.
I didn't said I don't care, I do care and used the few time I had to re-read ND and Bozo and what I find is that they avoided each other until D7. And even on D7 they just avoided being involved and voicing opinions the max they can. But read for yourself, please.

[bozotheclown]

Well whichever one of you is town isn’t showing that you really care much

I think at this point there is not much I can do. It's obvious to me that it's Bozo and ND. I made a read on both and they practically didn't interact with the other the whole game, until D7. They voted together on Damo D1 and D2, but other then this I can't really connect them.

I fully intend on rereading the entire game between tonight and tomorrow and I am confident that I’ll have it sorted out, but if you aren’t willing to try, I’ll happily wait for the next day and just settle on you today.

##VOTE rdrivera

I am confident lynching either rdrivera or ND will keep the game going.

##VOTE rdrivera

[brainbomb]

Vote Count Day 8

bozotheclown (3) worcej ND rdrivera2005
rdrivera2005 (2) bo_sox48 bozotheclown

End-votes (0/3):


Remaining players:
bozotheclown
bo_sox48
ND
rdrivera2005
worcej


bozo is scheduled to die
25 hours remain

[bo_sox48]

I think at this point there is not much I can do. It's obvious to me that it's Bozo and ND. I made a read on both and they practically didn't interact with the other the whole game, until D7. They voted together on Damo D1 and D2, but other then this I can't really connect them.

I fully intend on rereading the entire game between tonight and tomorrow and I am confident that I’ll have it sorted out, but if you aren’t willing to try, I’ll happily wait for the next day and just settle on you today.

##VOTE rdrivera

I am confident lynching either rdrivera or ND will keep the game going.

##VOTE rdrivera

Only confident?

[bozotheclown]

I fully intend on rereading the entire game between tonight and tomorrow and I am confident that I’ll have it sorted out, but if you aren’t willing to try, I’ll happily wait for the next day and just settle on you today.

##VOTE rdrivera

I am confident lynching either rdrivera or ND will keep the game going.

##VOTE rdrivera

Only confident?

It is possible a scum worcej passed the box to DrCJG, if he did it was a great move and very likely won the game for the mafia. It is remotely possible you passed the box to ghug as scum, since a town lynch was not guaranteed D7.

[ND]

Bozo is playing very aggressive here. But, he is scum. I will vote either him or RD. They are the scum team.

[bozotheclown]

worcej, are you coming back before EOD? If you are town, it is up to you to pull this out.

[bo_sox48]

I miss the old games where people other than those who are actually supposed to swing the vote onto someone would give a damn.

[bo_sox48]

God thread, I know you're saying "omg it's so obvious" right now. Despite your deaths, I can still hear you.

[bo_sox48]

Rdrivera:

On night 3 you posted this:

I have pretty solid townreads on Bo, Balki, Ghug and Worcej and won't vote any of them unless we have a scan or something like that. I have an overall town read on Durga, Vecna, Bozo and ND but to be honest it's more because I don't really remember anything scummy from them.

On night 4 you posted this:

I still think Flash is likely scum and in this case I think the last two are between Ghug, Balki and Bo.

Balki, ghug, and myself were all townreads on night 3. Then each of us became scumreads on night 4. What changed in that period?

At the very beginning of day 5, a little over 2 hours since you posted the previous post, you posted this:

This readlist from Demon is as fake as it can get. Flash and Ghug together on the scumteam? And also me and Dr? In what universe this makes sense?

Flash was “likely scum” and ghug was a 2/3 shot to be his teammate toward the end of night 4. At the opening of day 5, flash and ghug together on the scumteam was ridiculous. What changed in that period?

Given that flash and ghug together on the scumteam was ridiculous, and given that Balki had just died and flipped town, why didn’t you scumread me, the only one left of your previous trio?

[bo_sox48]

Bozo:

On day 4, you posted this shortly before the deadline:

I would like to see damo lynched today, I do not know how he has no votes after D1 and D2. I think RagingIke has made some good points, especially about a possible damo/DemonRHK scum pair, so I do not think RagingIke is a good lynch, and I think DemonRHK is a reasonable lynch if we can't lynch damo. flash also looks suspicious for seeming to be only interested in defending himself. Since damo does not appear to be an option today, I think DemonRHK is the best choice of the current wagons.

##VOTE DemonRHK

Seconds after the deadline, you voted for damo. Your vote was not counted because it was after the deadline. Damo received 0 votes on day 4, which you pointed out, and was never a wagon. The PR claimant, RHK, was in no risk of being lynched when you attempted to change your vote. You also noted with an hour to go before EOD that you preferred flash over Ike, and Ike ended up being lynched in a very, very late barrage of votes. Your vote for flash could have swung things a different direction. Please guide me through your thought process on this EOD, specifically pointing me to your reasoning for attempting to vote for damo, a non-candidate for the lynch, over flash, and why you waited until exactly the deadline to cast your meaningless vote instead of casting a meaningful vote while others were doing the same.

Secondarily -

On day 5, you posted this:

Hey Bozo, while you're here, who's the scum team?

I still suspect damo and DrCJG. After everyone has posted today we will know if DemonRHK is cleared. If so, I would expect to find the other two from flash, ghug, bo_sox, and rdrivera.

You followed it up with a conditional case on ghug, presuming that he protected damo, but damo’s town flip seemed to nullify that argument. Nonetheless, you posted the following during night 6 and then on day 7.

I still think ghug and flash could both be scum, their interaction seems like it could be extreme bussing to try to clear one when the other gets lynched.

I am not sure of the best way to go today. I am thinking the scum will be found in ghug/flash/ND/rdrivera.

Your consistent scumreads were ghug and flash, and you had maintained this without putting in effort to see either of them flip up to this point. You added rdrivera to this list, never providing any substance or reason for doing so and never pushing him going forward until today. You also added ND, and you made the following case that if I recall you have since admitted was weak on ND:

I think ND is a good option for today, by POE it is very likely he is on the scum team. Also, ND backing off on his damo read D6, just as it looked like damo would finally be lynched, makes me think he was preparing for damo’s flip as town. Looking back at D1, ND voted for damo early, before damo did some of the things ND would later scum read him for. It seems like he was trying to find reasons to justify his early read after xorxes questioned it. Also, xorxes’s point about ND looking suspicious for comparing damo’s play to a previous game half way through D1 seems valid.

##VOTE ND

You pointed out just a few hours later that you still think flash and ghug were bussing each other despite your case on ND.

Why did you go after ND instead of flash or ghug?

[bo_sox48]

ND:

Toward the end of night 1 on page 45, you posted the following, which I clipped rather dramatically for clarity:

In conclusion, I think we can narrow this down. The suspect pool is greatly reduced:
-Ghug and then rapid succession votes of Vecna, Ike, and Tom.
-DemonRHK and or Damo
-Flash/Jamie
-Balki and potentially DrCJG

(...)

All of (the thd voters) can’t be scum, but I would wager that the scum team is hiding in this pool of players with maybe a wildcard exception like Szpoti which can’t be ruled out.

This post is stunningly accurate, down to SzpEzio even. Are you a genius? Oh wait, no, you can’t be, you spent 3 days railroading damo and not doing anything with the stunningly accurate parts of that post. Here is one example, from the end of night 2:

Both days, we have the following people on the primary wagon: ghug, Balki, flash2015, DrCJG, DemonRHK, Damo666. That’s 6/10 from D1 to D2. It encompasses 60% of the vote share on the primary wagon D1 and 75% of the vote share D2. I’m not saying that this entire block of players are scum. But, I find it improbable with the pattern that the same group keeps pushing town lynches. However, I think it is very likely that there are scum in this group. Why? Damo666 has not played a town-aligned game. Sure, a few people may be able to defend him and justify it somehow, but at the end of the day and by his own admission he has no scum reads. (or didn't up until start of N2). He has suspicious D1 behavior that I outlined D1 and D2 couldn’t even give a read to save his life. Either I am wrong and he is just a lazy town player or he is scum who is evading the lynch.

Both the Thd and Peter wagons can be characterized as late day wagons with a massive influx of voters. For thd most of his votes were gained in the final half hour. For Peter most of his votes were gained in the last 10 minutes with it being pushed over in the final minute. Both of these wagons were formed in opposition to the Damo666 wagon or to a lesser extent the DemonRHK wagon. Some of the people who formed the wagons had their reasons, but I find both wagons to be inorganic. They don't feel genuine. This implies scum motivation or direction to them. In the secondary, tertiary and single wagons I am seeing quite a bit of static votes. It implies to me dug in players. That is not really alignment inductive to me. There could be a scum in this group (static read groups) as tunneling can be an effective scum strategy and I am not ruling that out. However, if we operate under the assumption that Damo is scum then we can explain both the thd and peter wagon’s. Let me reiterate, the entire scum team is not in that group, but scum are in that group. How many, I don’t know, but the numbers support a quick and rapid swing vote to pump these two wagons over the lynch line to save Damo666. I firmly believe that Damo and Flash are scum. I am suspecting that we also have scum in DrCJG, Balki, or DemonRHK. At least one of them. We may have a scum somewhere in Ghug, Xorxes, Ezio. But, I am going to concentrate on Flash/Damo if I make it through the night.

Why did you focus so exclusively on damo for so long while you gathered evidence that could have just as easily been used against many of your scumreads, including ghug, DemonRHK, and Ezio?

Beginning on day 5, you have a consistent scumread on ghug but never pursued said scumread. You go so far as to list him in your scumteam multiple times with different people. Why didn’t you pursue a case against him?

Beginning around that same time, you began to scumread Durga. That changed after D6. Why?

[bo_sox48]

Worcej, I hope you're going to be available and involved tomorrow because I am not interested in having to make this call myself. Ideally you can come through with your own questions and we can both try to take our best shots. This dead thread, though, needs to not be so dead in the morning.

[rdrivera2005]

First thing I want to apologize for playing a lot less actively as I should do. I had some issues on personal life, nothing serious, but just didn't have the time (or the will) to play the way it should be. I am probably withdrawing from any mafia games until february or march. And this is all NAI.

Bo, will try to answer your questions the best I can as if you myslynch me it’s game over.

Rdrivera:

On night 3 you posted this:

I have pretty solid townreads on Bo, Balki, Ghug and Worcej and won't vote any of them unless we have a scan or something like that. I have an overall town read on Durga, Vecna, Bozo and ND but to be honest it's more because I don't really remember anything scummy from them.

On night 4 you posted this:

I still think Flash is likely scum and in this case I think the last two are between Ghug, Balki and Bo.

Balki, ghug, and myself were all townreads on night 3. Then each of us became scumreads on night 4. What changed in that period?

Well, I first have a townread on all this four players. I missed most of D4 and a part of N4 (I evne told this on my first night post, Dia de los Muertos is a holiday here). Then when I read what I missed I feel as Balki was trying to save Flash last minute to lynch Ike and adjusted my reads to this. I included Ghug because he parked a vote on Flash and didn't push his lynch, exactly what I expect him to do if he was soft bussing a scum partner. And honestly I didn't remember exactly why I included you on this list, I remember to think that you and Ghug could be playing with us and be together on the scum team, but it was 10 days ago and I just can't find a logical reason for tying you and Ghug.

At the very beginning of day 5, a little over 2 hours since you posted the previous post, you posted this:

This readlist from Demon is as fake as it can get. Flash and Ghug together on the scumteam? And also me and Dr? In what universe this makes sense?

Flash was “likely scum” and ghug was a 2/3 shot to be his teammate toward the end of night 4. At the opening of day 5, flash and ghug together on the scumteam was ridiculous. What changed in that period?

Given that flash and ghug together on the scumteam was ridiculous, and given that Balki had just died and flipped town, why didn’t you scumread me, the only one left of your previous trio?

I said the reads were fake (and they were). Demon said he observed (Xorxes, Durga, ND and Worcej), none of them on his scumlist and neither on the scumlist he had before (Yav, Ike and Balki), there is no sense on watching people you think are town.
I didn´t said Flash and Gugh together was ridiculous, the what universe this makes sense comment was for me and Dr as scum. My comment on Flash and Ghug was because it just doesn´t fit with what Demon have claimed to Observe and also because he had the chance to vote Flash and put him on the lead on the day before and he choose to push Ike´s lynch.
At that point Balki haven’t flipped yet and neither Ghug or Flash, so I don´t get your last question.

[bozotheclown]

Bozo:

On day 4, you posted this shortly before the deadline:

I would like to see damo lynched today, I do not know how he has no votes after D1 and D2. I think RagingIke has made some good points, especially about a possible damo/DemonRHK scum pair, so I do not think RagingIke is a good lynch, and I think DemonRHK is a reasonable lynch if we can't lynch damo. flash also looks suspicious for seeming to be only interested in defending himself. Since damo does not appear to be an option today, I think DemonRHK is the best choice of the current wagons.

##VOTE DemonRHK

Seconds after the deadline, you voted for damo. Your vote was not counted because it was after the deadline. Damo received 0 votes on day 4, which you pointed out, and was never a wagon. The PR claimant, RHK, was in no risk of being lynched when you attempted to change your vote. You also noted with an hour to go before EOD that you preferred flash over Ike, and Ike ended up being lynched in a very, very late barrage of votes. Your vote for flash could have swung things a different direction. Please guide me through your thought process on this EOD, specifically pointing me to your reasoning for attempting to vote for damo, a non-candidate for the lynch, over flash, and why you waited until exactly the deadline to cast your meaningless vote instead of casting a meaningful vote while others were doing the same.

I did not think RagingIke was scum, primarily because of a case he made on damo and/or DemonRHK being protected D1 and D2, and I was uncertain on flash, which is why I said I preferred flash over RagingIke. However, I said that 1 minute before EOD, not 1 hour before EOD, as the bot was off by 1 hour that day, I believe because of the time change. That was after DemonRHK had made his PR claim, and everyone was switching from DemonRHK to either RagingIke or flash. The last vote I count I saw before that post was RagingIke 5 flash 4 DemonRHK 4, so I did not want to vote for flash so close to EOD and risk a tie, and I did not want to vote for RagingIke because I thought he was town and someone could still swing the vote from RagingIke to flash. At EOD, I decided to move my vote from DemonRHK to my top scum read damo to avoid any risk of a late vote on DemonRHK causing a tie, but I was late with my vote. I was watching the bot, and the RagingIke 5 flash 4 DemonRHK 4 vote count was the last count I saw before EOD, although there were some votes for RagingIke just before my post saying I preferred flash over RagingIke that I had not seen.

[Foxcastle]

VOTE COUNT

bozotheclown (3) — worcej, ND, rdrivera2005
rdrivera (2) — bo_sox48, bozotheclown

bozotheclown is slated to be lynched!

9 hours remain in Day 8

[bozotheclown]

Secondarily -

On day 5, you posted this:

Hey Bozo, while you're here, who's the scum team?

I still suspect damo and DrCJG. After everyone has posted today we will know if DemonRHK is cleared. If so, I would expect to find the other two from flash, ghug, bo_sox, and rdrivera.

You followed it up with a conditional case on ghug, presuming that he protected damo, but damo’s town flip seemed to nullify that argument. Nonetheless, you posted the following during night 6 and then on day 7.

I still think ghug and flash could both be scum, their interaction seems like it could be extreme bussing to try to clear one when the other gets lynched.

I am not sure of the best way to go today. I am thinking the scum will be found in ghug/flash/ND/rdrivera.

Your consistent scumreads were ghug and flash, and you had maintained this without putting in effort to see either of them flip up to this point. You added rdrivera to this list, never providing any substance or reason for doing so and never pushing him going forward until today. You also added ND, and you made the following case that if I recall you have since admitted was weak on ND:

I think ND is a good option for today, by POE it is very likely he is on the scum team. Also, ND backing off on his damo read D6, just as it looked like damo would finally be lynched, makes me think he was preparing for damo’s flip as town. Looking back at D1, ND voted for damo early, before damo did some of the things ND would later scum read him for. It seems like he was trying to find reasons to justify his early read after xorxes questioned it. Also, xorxes’s point about ND looking suspicious for comparing damo’s play to a previous game half way through D1 seems valid.

##VOTE ND

You pointed out just a few hours later that you still think flash and ghug were bussing each other despite your case on ND.

Why did you go after ND instead of flash or ghug?

I added rdrivera, then ND, to my lists of scum possibilities by POE as more town were eliminated. I never had much of a read on rdrivera, and my early town read of ND changed after damo flipped town, because ND had started backing off on damo for reasons that I did not agree with, leading me to believe he knew damo would flip town. I voted for ND over flash or ghug because of the reasons I gave in that post. My primary reason for suspecting flash and ghug was their interaction seemed like it could be bussing, and I could see ghug bussing Jamie/flash all game. However, I was not sure enough to put them above ND. Also, ghug was not a lynch candidate because he had the box.

[ND]

@bo.

Fair question. I narrowed down a block of voters from D1 and D2 that is where some of that analyisis came from. For the longest time I concentrated hard on damo because I thought both days were about him. I was wrong it was about RHK and that called for me to reevaluate the game. Thus I eventually backed off damo.
A few times I thought Durga was being not genuine or off from last game. I backed off that because I thought flash was a sure thing and I wasn't totally confident in that Durga read. I was long suspicious of Ghug due to him being involved in that voting Bloc, and how he was a big pusher D1 and I guess D2. He plays that way when he is scum sometimes. Also, him surviving so long was another sign. I saw the signs but he never became a major read for me because I was too focused on the wrong people.

[bozotheclown]

Looking at all the vote results, except for the obvious lynch of Ezio, ND has never ended on a scum wagon, and did not even end on a top wagon until D7 when he was the only other option. Meanwhile, rdrivera has ended on scum wagons more than anyone, because he only voted for DemonRHK D1 and D2. I think ND was laying low while rdrivera was the busser, probably because ND is the driver.