How to Austria?

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Jimmyecp
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How to Austria?

#1 Post by Jimmyecp » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:26 pm

How is Austria supposed to survive the first two years, let alone the game? They are the best target for three of their four neighbours:
Russia and Turkey have the option of crushing Austria or struggling to fight each other through Armenia.
Italy can either struggle though Piedmont and the Mediterranean to get to France, try for a Lepanto against Turkey (works 1/5 times), or just take Trieste which is right there and usually poorly defended if the Austria player wants any builds.
I've played a few dozen games and I can count the number of times I've seen Austria survive the game on one hand.

Claesar
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Re: How to Austria?

#2 Post by Claesar » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:45 pm

Are we talking Gunboat or Press games here?

I disagree about Austria being the best target.

Russia has the issue of Black Sea. Crushing Austria usually means letting Turkey into the Black Sea, without Italy being able to hold Turkey down. This usually means your chances of a solo are out the window. For the rest of the game you'll have to be worried about Turkey.
Furthermore, Russia can't kill Austria alone. In Gunboat, always go to Galicia in Spring 1901.

Turkey can indeed devote resources to kill Austria, but this puts them square in between Russia and Italy. If they aren't careful, it will come back to haunt them. Nevertheless, there's not much you can do against Turkey as Austria if they get out of their corner and they're hostile. Hope they take Greece with a fleet so Italy gets nervous. I think Russia is the best target for Turkey, but Austria is a close second.

Italy doesn't have any good options and is best played with a wait-and-see. Attacking Austria straight away usually results in getting only Trieste. Turkey and Russia take the rest and crush Italy afterwards. Attacking Austria in 1901 as Italy is a rookie mistake. The Lepanto is better if executed well, so Turkey is often a better target. Sometimes France even opens up, so this option should not be discarded.

I do agree that Austria is hard to play and therefore typically fares poorly in the hands of a new player. While Austria has the highest elimination rate of all countries, they also have great solo potential if they survive the early game.
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Sunstriker
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Re: How to Austria?

#3 Post by Sunstriker » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:49 pm

If my experience (and from what I’ve read the experience of others) an Italy that attacks Austria early and without a plan often ends up feeding Turkey and Russia. Basically it’s M.A.D. - Mutually Assured Destruction. Making sure that Italy knows the risks of attacking you [Austria] is part of the Austrian playbook.

As I’ve played folks of higher rank I’ve found this to be something that often is unspoken as it’s well understood. This does lead to Italian stabs that are clever, to prevent R/T from fearing on it, but by that point you’re getting away from “Austria’s problem” to the normal risks of the game.

There are going to be folks who are better able to articulate this than I, and might disagree with my point of certain levels. However - when I was first starting out this was something I focused on.

Minister of Silly Walks
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Re: How to Austria?

#4 Post by Minister of Silly Walks » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:09 pm

One trick I found so far is to tell Italy right from the start that you are going to move into Venice on turn one as a non-negotiable safety measure, but that you are fully open to cooperation. You should expect some disappointment and surprise from Italy, but they usually agree to cooperate after that.
Should Italy still attack you, A(Rom) doesn't get in place to threaten Trieste just yet, and you have enough time to organize defence and ask somebody for help.
More often, though, they won't. Since Italy knows about this move in advance, they can easily defend with A(Ven) H or A(Rom)-(Ven). If they want a Lepanto, they would do A(Ven) H all the same, so your attack doesn't harm them in any way. If their plan was to attack France on turn 1, they have a little more problems with that, but they can use A(Rom)-(Ven) and later convoy the army to wherever they need it.
For you, the only drawback is that you can't support yourself into Greece in the autumn, but this is one time secure border is worth it.
This won't help you survive if you are attacked on all sides, but this may help you to survive for an extra year or two even in that case.

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Re: How to Austria?

#5 Post by Claesar » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:17 pm

I really hate A Tri-Ven for Austria. In my opinion you should always take Greece.

But many people think the Hedghog is great. I suppose it does help you survive two years, but stymies you in the long run. If I recall correctly, Powa played A Tri-Ven in the previous Nexus Finals and proceeded to win the game (plus therefore the tournament).

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Re: How to Austria?

#6 Post by Chaqa » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:47 pm

I've never liked the Hedgehog as Austria. Not getting two builds in 1901 is a death spell.

But I don't play press, so that may be the difference.
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Jimmyecp
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Re: How to Austria?

#7 Post by Jimmyecp » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:17 pm

Claesar wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:45 pm
Are we talking Gunboat or Press games here?

I disagree about Austria being the best target.

Russia has the issue of Black Sea. Crushing Austria usually means letting Turkey into the Black Sea, without Italy being able to hold Turkey down. This usually means your chances of a solo are out the window. For the rest of the game you'll have to be worried about Turkey.
Furthermore, Russia can't kill Austria alone. In Gunboat, always go to Galicia in Spring 1901.

Turkey can indeed devote resources to kill Austria, but this puts them square in between Russia and Italy. If they aren't careful, it will come back to haunt them. Nevertheless, there's not much you can do against Turkey as Austria if they get out of their corner and they're hostile. Hope they take Greece with a fleet so Italy gets nervous. I think Russia is the best target for Turkey, but Austria is a close second.

Italy doesn't have any good options and is best played with a wait-and-see. Attacking Austria straight away usually results in getting only Trieste. Turkey and Russia take the rest and crush Italy afterwards. Attacking Austria in 1901 as Italy is a rookie mistake. The Lepanto is better if executed well, so Turkey is often a better target. Sometimes France even opens up, so this option should not be discarded.

I do agree that Austria is hard to play and therefore typically fares poorly in the hands of a new player. While Austria has the highest elimination rate of all countries, they also have great solo potential if they survive the early game.
Talking primarily about gunboat, but press is rarely better.
The way I usually see it play out is Italy takes Trieste. Austria (who has usually allied with either Russia or Turkey against the other), must chose between counter attacking Italy and losing to their chosen foe, or continuing the assault and have Italy in the backlines. Either way Austria starts dying and their ally must betray them or see their SC's fall to the enemy.
Nikola Maric Eto wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:39 pm
Maybe we could post a link to a high stakes game connected to a thread How to win a high stakes game as Austria with discrete comment that imply how Austria could win in that high stakes game, exactly in the moment when Austria's biggest interest is to not be perceived as a solo threat - which will totally be OK regarding the rule that we DON'T COMMENT ON ONGOING GUNBOATS? Does that rule still exist? Should a game be cancelled in that case? Or at least that good Samaritan be warned that he violated the site rules, so some other soul does not repeat the same?
I was clearly asking about basic strategy for early game Austria, so if this Austria (I assume played by you) is in a position to solo then this advice wont be much use to them. So how about you chill and stop assuming everything is about you?
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Re: How to Austria?

#8 Post by Minister of Silly Walks » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:24 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:47 pm
I've never liked the Hedgehog as Austria. Not getting two builds in 1901 is a death spell.

But I don't play press, so that may be the difference.
Claesar wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:17 pm
I really hate A Tri-Ven for Austria. In my opinion you should always take Greece.

But many people think the Hedghog is great. I suppose it does help you survive two years, but stymies you in the long run. If I recall correctly, Powa played A Tri-Ven in the previous Nexus Finals and proceeded to win the game (plus therefore the tournament).
This might be a matter of taste, besides all else. I am not that great a diplomat to simply talk Italy into a lifelong alliance, so this move helps me more often than not.
On the other hand, I am playing almost exclusively press games, and I follow the assumption that abiding by at least some agreements is mandatory in the opening - but in that case most agreements tend to account for any extra gain by shifting in favor of the other side, so I assume a stab by a neighbor would usually make more difference than a gain of an extra center.

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Re: How to Austria?

#9 Post by Claesar » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:34 pm

Jimmyecp wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:17 pm
Talking primarily about gunboat, but press is rarely better.
The way I usually see it play out is Italy takes Trieste. Austria (who has usually allied with either Russia or Turkey against the other), must chose between counter attacking Italy and losing to their chosen foe, or continuing the assault and have Italy in the backlines. Either way Austria starts dying and their ally must betray them or see their SC's fall to the enemy.
There's a third option; in my last press game where this happened I managed to convince Italy to switch into a Key Lepanto variant. He kept Trieste, but I got to play on. I topped that board.

The fourth option would be to ally Turkey and promise to cede them Greece in 1902 if they only build fleets. Turkey will usually like this offer as Italy is often a threat to them with the fleets. You move Greece back to Albania and try to recover Trieste. It's hard for Italy to prevent this.
Of course, this requires a neutral Russia to succeed, so either make sure Germany bounces Sweden or ensure Russia has other goals. Germany should be on your side. A fast collapse of Austria is bad for Germany, according to statistics I don't have a link to.

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Re: How to Austria?

#10 Post by Nikola Maric Eto » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:46 pm

Claesar, I was not referring to your comment. No reason to think that "everything is about you"! :-D :-D :-D

Claesar
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Re: How to Austria?

#11 Post by Claesar » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:56 am

Nikola Maric Eto wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:46 pm
Claesar, I was not referring to your comment. No reason to think that "everything is about you"! :-D :-D :-D
That wasn't my reply ;-)
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Re: How to Austria?

#12 Post by Nikola Maric Eto » Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:50 am

Oh man, some days are really bad! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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