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Since I usually play gunboat... no. Lol.

I don't think either of those openings does anything better than normal openings under the same premises. If Italy and Austria can trust each other enough to run those openings, I don't see why you wouldn't just, say, send Venice -> Tyrolia -> Bohemia and play as an extension of Austria's army, so that Austria can send an extra army toward Greece and use its fleet in Aegean Sea as an extension of Italy's navy. Both of those Lepanto variants add more complexity without meaningfully expanding tactical options IMO.

Carl Tuckerson wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:42 am

Since I usually play gunboat... no. Lol.

I don't think either of those openings does anything better than normal openings under the same premises. If Italy and Austria can trust each other enough to run those openings, I don't see why you wouldn't just, say, send Venice -> Tyrolia -> Bohemia and play as an extension of Austria's army, so that Austria can send an extra army toward Greece and use its fleet in Aegean Sea as an extension of Italy's navy. Both of those Lepanto variants add more complexity without meaningfully expanding tactical options IMO.

You clearly haven't been reading our Key Lepanto variant thread from about half a year back. Getting a fleet into Aegean in 1901 is definitely better than a regular Lepanto. I've also been doing it in Gunboat (including the 2019 GBT) with some success..

https://www.webdiplomacy.net/contrib/ph ... ?f=3&t=664

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=222952

That is a big improvement. I can sign off on that variation.

I was playing and spectating a live gunboat game yesterday. (two different games.) In both occurrences, Germany opted for the Tuckerson opening (Munich->Tyrolia->Piedmont). Although the move to Piedmont did not see Germany taking Mar in '02, in both games Germany was the center leader (and got the solo in one of them.)

Although this is a small sample size, perhaps the Tyrolia move is not so bad after all, even with Italy moving to Piedmont in Spring back to Venice in the Fall.

Magnetic24 wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:51 am

I was playing and spectating a live gunboat game yesterday. (two different games.) In both occurrences, Germany opted for the Tuckerson opening (Munich->Tyrolia->Piedmont).

I guess this thread has given people some ideas.

i recall reading about an opening to syria once. i don't remember what the logic behind the move was.

BobMcBob wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:52 am

Magnetic24 wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:51 am

I was playing and spectating a live gunboat game yesterday. (two different games.) In both occurrences, Germany opted for the Tuckerson opening (Munich->Tyrolia->Piedmont).

I guess this thread has given people some ideas.

We ought to start more threads like this one.

I'll start one after my round robin set is done. I'll probably have a lot to say by then.

In the meantime, "Tuckerson opening" warms my heart. Can we call it the "Tyrolian Tuck"?

Carl Tuckerson wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:59 am

BobMcBob wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:52 am

Magnetic24 wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:51 am

I was playing and spectating a live gunboat game yesterday. (two different games.) In both occurrences, Germany opted for the Tuckerson opening (Munich->Tyrolia->Piedmont).

I guess this thread has given people some ideas.

We ought to start more threads like this one.

I'll start one after my round robin set is done. I'll probably have a lot to say by then.

In the meantime, "Tuckerson opening" warms my heart. Can we call it the "Tyrolian Tuck"?

Tyrolian Tuck... Has a nice ring to it. Another one of these kinds of threads sounds like a great idea.

Also, I feel like German win/draw rates will temporarily peak soon. And Italians will stop moving to Tyrolia in S01. And more E/G's will form. But but before too long, I feel like a lot of French players are going to begin opening to Burgundy, without expecting a bounce, lowering the effectiveness of the Tyrolian Tuck. But it'll still be fun. (Someone should keep some statistics). And we really should liven up our metas more often. (And I should play Germany sometime soon).

I've seen a sharp uptick in English Channel openers for England, which makes for a very pro-German metagame.

I think the metagame hasn't solved the French problem yet. swordsman called attention to it in his seminal gunboat AAR, and I've seen the obvious English Channel adjustment from England, but as I watch that opening play out, I can't help but think that Germany is the only one benefiting from a Channel opening. I've seen more seven-center Germanys in W02 than I'm used to seeing.

Austria: Russian Floric Opening. F TRI goes for Albania, A BUD tries Rumania and A VIE gets Galicia.

England: Atlantic Opening. Convoy army to Norway, while F LON goes ENG and then MID for a massive increase in tempo.

France: Vineyard Opening. A MAR-BUR guards from Germany and gets Spain, A PAR-GAS guards Brest and F BRE-MID may convoy the army in Gascony to Portugal.

Germany: Centrifuge Opening. F KIE-BAL, A BER-PRU, A MUN-KIE. You get Holland and convoy the other army to Denmark, giving a solid position on Sweden.

Italy: Illyrian Opening. Start as a Lepanto, but move F ION-ADR, F NAP-ION and prepare a convoy to Albania or supported attack on Trieste.

Russia: Livonian Landing Opening (my invention). A MOS-LVN gets convoyed to Finland, giving you greater leverage on Sweden & the Baltic without scaring England in Norway.

Turkey: Syrian Opening. A CON-BUL, F ANK-BLA, A SMY H. Then in Fall, A BUL whatever, F ANK-CON (if Juggernauting) and A SMY-SYR (giving build options in both SMY & ANK).

Enriador wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Germany: Centrifuge Opening. F KIE-BAL, A BER-PRU, A MUN-KIE. You get Holland and convoy the other army to Denmark, giving a solid position on Sweden.

My only critique is that Russia is guaranteed Sweden in 01, and will probably build F StP sc.

Enriador wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Italy: Illyrian Opening. Start as a Lepanto, but move F ION-ADR, F NAP-ION and prepare a convoy to Albania or supported attack on Trieste.

So no builds? Surely one should sneak into Trieste.

Enriador wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Turkey: Syrian Opening. A CON-BUL, F ANK-BLA, A SMY H. Then in Fall, A BUL whatever, F ANK-CON (if Juggernauting) and A SMY-SYR (giving build options in both SMY & ANK).

Ah, so that explains the opening to Syria. You're usually not doing anything else with that army.

ziran wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:28 pm

Enriador wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Germany: Centrifuge Opening. F KIE-BAL, A BER-PRU, A MUN-KIE. You get Holland and convoy the other army to Denmark, giving a solid position on Sweden.

My only critique is that Russia is guaranteed Sweden in 01, and will probably build F StP sc.

Enriador wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Italy: Illyrian Opening. Start as a Lepanto, but move F ION-ADR, F NAP-ION and prepare a convoy to Albania or supported attack on Trieste.

So no builds? Surely one should sneak into Trieste.

Enriador wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Turkey: Syrian Opening. A CON-BUL, F ANK-BLA, A SMY H. Then in Fall, A BUL whatever, F ANK-CON (if Juggernauting) and A SMY-SYR (giving build options in both SMY & ANK).

Ah, so that explains the opening to Syria. You're usually not doing anything else with that army.

1) Usually, when Russia spots a German fleet in the Baltic it means trouble. Russia should expect a bounce in Sweden or a move to BOT; in either case F BOT-BAL is the likely move. Germany however never shoes outright hostility and throws the army back on track to Denmark. Quite a fun opening!

2) There is a build! Italy doesn't start with two fleets after all. By "Start with a Lepanto" I meant "convoy the army to Tunis". But rather than going to EAS, Italy swings north to ADR against Austria for a myriad of options.

3) Yes, that's the thing. Army Smyrna commonly just gets in the way, so why not leave it around to dissuade Italy of Lepantoing, while also being fairly close to Smyrna for Greece-bound convoys or Armenia for anti-Russian intentions?