Question about support

Use this forum to discuss Diplomacy strategy.
Forum rules
This forum is limited to topics relating to the game Diplomacy only. Other posts or topics will be relocated to the correct forum category or deleted. Please be respectful and follow our normal site rules at http://www.webdiplomacy.net/rules.php.
Post Reply
Message
Author
fourofswords
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:38 am
Karma: 16
Contact:

Question about support

#1 Post by fourofswords » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:46 am

I was under this impression: If a unit is ordered to move, and it is attacked in its original place, it must defend. Therefore, another unit can be ordered to support it in holding. I am in another dip club and I was just told that if a unit moves, it cannot be supported to hold, even if attacked. Can someone please clarify?

User avatar
dargorygel
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 6120
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:55 pm
Location: Over the rainbow
Karma: 6249
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#2 Post by dargorygel » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:22 pm

A unit's support is either in holding or moving. If the unit being supported is moving, the only support that counts is support in moving. If the unit being supported is NOT moving, it must be supported 'holding' for the support to possibly have effect.

Wow... how wordy.
In short, nope. When you order a unit to move, it cannot be supported as if it were holding.
1

User avatar
dargorygel
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 6120
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:55 pm
Location: Over the rainbow
Karma: 6249
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#3 Post by dargorygel » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:25 pm

perhaps, fourofswords... you were thinking about a unit ordered to SUPPORT an attack. THAT unit, if attacked, instead merely defends, and CAN be supported in place. The supporting-the-attack unit... not the unit actually moving.

fourofswords
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:38 am
Karma: 16
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#4 Post by fourofswords » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:15 pm

thanks for the 2 answers so far. they seem contradictory. let me clarify the situation: My Unit A is moving. My unit B is ordered to support that unit. I did not designate that Unit B is supporting a Hold. Unit B is definitely not ordered to support Unit A's move/attack. Unit B is merely ordered to support unit A. I thought that if unit A is attacked, unit B supports it as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move. Now if it possible, lol, can anyone clarify?

BananaFang
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:26 pm
Karma: 5
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#5 Post by BananaFang » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:39 pm

On webdip (and others) supports are clarified into "support move" and "support hold". From the rulebook:
Writing a support order
1. Write your unit type (A or F).
2. Then write the province where your unit is located. 3. Then, write an “S” (for Support).
4.Finally, write the type, current location, and
destination of the unit receiving support (if the supported unit is moving).
Example: “A Par S A Mar–Bur” orders an Army in Paris to support an Army in Marseilles moving into Burgundy.
Valid:
A Par S A Mar–Bur
A Mar-Bur

Valid:
A Par S A Mar holds
A Mar holds

What you are trying to do is this:
A Par S Mar
A Mar-Bur

"A Par S Mar" is ambiguous and invalid because you didn't specify what Mar is doing.
2

User avatar
dargorygel
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 6120
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:55 pm
Location: Over the rainbow
Karma: 6249
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#6 Post by dargorygel » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:55 pm

fourofswords wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:15 pm
thanks for the 2 answers so far. they seem contradictory. let me clarify the situation: My Unit A is moving. My unit B is ordered to support that unit. I did not designate that Unit B is supporting a Hold. Unit B is definitely not ordered to support Unit A's move/attack. Unit B is merely ordered to support unit A. I thought that if unit A is attacked, unit B supports it as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move. Now if it possible, lol, can anyone clarify?
The error comes from this line: "as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move." There is no "as if." Your units receive orders based on what you order... not based on what ends up happening.

Unit A was ordered to move. The ONLY support Unit A can receive is to move. Ordering another unit to support A IN CASE he doesn't end up moving does not have any effect.

dyager_nh
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:19 pm
Karma: 53
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#7 Post by dyager_nh » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:26 pm

Another interwsting dynamic that always gets me to stop and think is the following:

Austria has armies in Vienna and Trieste. Turkey in Budapest and Serbia.

Vienna moves to Budapest with Trieste support
Budapest moves to Trieste with Serbia support
What happens?

Scenerio 2:
Vienna moves to Budapest with Trieste support
Serbia moves to Trieste with Budapest support
What happens?

User avatar
David E. Cohen
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:27 am
Location: Treading the Path to Diplo-Shambhala
Karma: 169
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#8 Post by David E. Cohen » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:08 pm

dargorygel wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:55 pm
fourofswords wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:15 pm
thanks for the 2 answers so far. they seem contradictory. let me clarify the situation: My Unit A is moving. My unit B is ordered to support that unit. I did not designate that Unit B is supporting a Hold. Unit B is definitely not ordered to support Unit A's move/attack. Unit B is merely ordered to support unit A. I thought that if unit A is attacked, unit B supports it as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move. Now if it possible, lol, can anyone clarify?
The error comes from this line: "as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move." There is no "as if." Your units receive orders based on what you order... not based on what ends up happening.

Unit A was ordered to move. The ONLY support Unit A can receive is to move. Ordering another unit to support A IN CASE he doesn't end up moving does not have any effect.
Not only that, but the support order must "match" the movement order. Support cannot be given for movement in general.
1

Claesar
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:34 am
Karma: 1490
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#9 Post by Claesar » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:28 am

dyager_nh wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:26 pm
Another interwsting dynamic that always gets me to stop and think is the following:

Austria has armies in Vienna and Trieste. Turkey in Budapest and Serbia.

Vienna moves to Budapest with Trieste support
Budapest moves to Trieste with Serbia support
What happens?
Turkey takes Trieste and dislodges the army there (forcing a retreat). Austria takes empty Budapest with power 1.
Scenerio 2:
Vienna moves to Budapest with Trieste support
Serbia moves to Trieste with Budapest support
What happens?
Trieste support is cut. Budapest support is cut. All armies remain in place.
1

Lord of Broken Plains
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:23 am
Karma: 20
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#10 Post by Lord of Broken Plains » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:08 am

Is it valid to order, for example:

A Spa S A Mar
A Mar S A Spa


If so, does each effectively support the other in a hold action?

Mercy
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:03 pm
Karma: 220
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#11 Post by Mercy » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:29 am

Lord of Broken Plains wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:08 am
Is it valid to order, for example:

A Spa S A Mar
A Mar S A Spa
Yes.
Lord of Broken Plains wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:08 am
If so, does each effectively support the other in a hold action?
Yes.
1

Lord of Broken Plains
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:23 am
Karma: 20
Contact:

Re: Question about support

#12 Post by Lord of Broken Plains » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:56 am

@ Mercy
Thank you kindly
1

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests