The Stirring Case of the Double French

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Octavious
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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#21 Post by Octavious » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:36 pm

The actual Sherlock Holmes stories are mostly about Dr Watson perving over Sherlock's female clients, with murder mysteries that are on a similar level of complexity to those of Scooby Doo. The only thing going for them are Watson's regular ejaculations and knocking people up, which never stop being hilarious.

This puzzle is many levels above Holmes' abilities :)
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woelpad
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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#22 Post by woelpad » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:50 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:31 pm
What if the colors dont represent countries? France could be playing by themselves, and the colors are something like the year in which France captured them. Started with France in 1901, got Germany in 1902, England 1903, Austria 1904, and hasn't captured Turkey yet. There are a couple problems with that exact situation, but something along those lines?
Exquisite. You've smelled a rabbit (or two). Now, before letting everyone loose on the chase (and to give a bone to those who are looking for further clues in the original riddle), try to explain the departure time of the train, 17:34.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#23 Post by Squigs44 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:12 am

17 SCs controlled by Turkey (or all of the remaining countries combined), 34 supply centers total. Also 17*2 = 34, hence the double in double French. But how does this help us exactly?
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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#24 Post by Squigs44 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:24 am

And 17 can be split into 8 (Austria) and 9
9 is split into 4(England) and 5
5 is split into 3(France) and 2(Germany).

With odd numbers, you don't have exact halves, but by rounding there is sort of a pattern... That one is more of a stretch I think.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#25 Post by Claesar » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:33 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:24 am
And 17 can be split into 8 (Austria) and 9
9 is split into 4(England) and 5
5 is split into 3(France) and 2(Germany).

With odd numbers, you don't have exact halves, but by rounding there is sort of a pattern... That one is more of a stretch I think.
Obviously it can be, there are 17+17 centres. I don't see this connection, but your post above it was solid.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#26 Post by woelpad » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:19 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:12 am
17 SCs controlled by Turkey (or all of the remaining countries combined), 34 supply centers total. Also 17*2 = 34, hence the double in double French. But how does this help us exactly?
What if "Turkey" is just like the rest, a color to indicate what centers get captured in the final year? :idea:

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#27 Post by SirThursday » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:07 pm

So you could almost guess at the order of captured centers by the number of them "possessed by each color" at the end of the game, so France starts out with its own, moves to take the "German/Brown" centers in year 1 with the fleet still in a (perhaps North) sea, most likely takes the English/Blue centers next, and carrying on as such, with new units moving to catch up or taking different routes, so that by the time France has 17 centers, his next move will "double" to 34 in a fall phase? So the hint in the timing is that there will be a turn when 17 becomes 34, and not a slow +2 each turn scenario? And I suppose the player could take a turn or two here and there to set up convoy chains without actually taking any centers, so that the new armies can get into position without upsetting the color pattern (Looking at the acquisition of the Austrian/Red after the English/Blue as a particular difficulty there)

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#28 Post by SirThursday » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:10 pm

Total stretch here, but if my last idea proves true, do you think the "train" could be a hint in the path a unit follows? So, you're working in a variant where subsequent new units have to follow the same path as the units which originated in that same center, unless they can take a new center from the same position? So, if A Mar to Pie to Ven, all subsequent armies have to follow that "train", unless you could take Rom instead of Apu>Nap, or convoy?

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#29 Post by xorxes » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:57 pm

I found a solution but it appears to be wrong:

Original units (only show end of year locations):

A Par-Mun-Den-Nwy-Mos
A Mar-Ven-Ser-Bul-Ank
F Bre-Wes-Nap-Gre-Smy

Year 1 builds:

A Par-Ruh-Ber-Kie
F Bre-Lon-Lvp-Edi

Year 2 builds:

F Bre-Nth-StP
F Mar-Spa-Tun
A Mun-Vie-Rum
A Ven-Bud-Sev

Year 3 builds:

A/F Bre-Bel
A/F Mar-Por
A Mun-War
A/F Ven-Tri
F Lon-Hol
A/F Den-Swe
A Ser-Con
A/F Nap-Rom

So the first army from Paris ends up in Moscow, but the problem is that there's no "army London" at any point, London is taken with a fleet, and the build there has to be a fleet in order to take Holland.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#30 Post by Squigs44 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:14 am

xorxes wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:57 pm
I found a solution but it appears to be wrong:

Original units (only show end of year locations):

A Par-Mun-Den-Nwy-Mos
A Mar-Ven-Ser-Bul-Ank
F Bre-Wes-Nap-Gre-Smy

Year 1 builds:

A Par-Ruh-Ber-Kie
F Bre-Lon-Lvp-Edi

Year 2 builds:

F Bre-Nth-StP
F Mar-Spa-Tun
A Mun-Vie-Rum
A Ven-Bud-Sev

Year 3 builds:

A/F Bre-Bel
A/F Mar-Por
A Mun-War
A/F Ven-Tri
F Lon-Hol
A/F Den-Swe
A Ser-Con
A/F Nap-Rom

So the first army from Paris ends up in Moscow, but the problem is that there's no "army London" at any point, London is taken with a fleet, and the build there has to be a fleet in order to take Holland.
I have been attempting to find a solution with an army in London, and the only thing I can think that would work would be the army built in Paris the end of Year 1 is convoyed to London F 1902. I haven't worked out all the specifics though, and the army wouldn't haven been built in London, just passed through. This would suggest the final location for that army is then in Edi, while the first army from Paris would probably also end in Moscow. However, the way the riddle is written makes me think that the location for the Paris army isn't the final destination, but the location that the Paris army is at when the army is in London, which would be S1903, so Denmark.

My current guess on the answer is the train from Denmark to Edinburgh. However, that would require the train to traverse a large body of water...

I can't wait to see what the answer actually is and how far off we are.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#31 Post by Squigs44 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:22 am

The theory I just posted also has both armies coming from Paris, which makes sense in the context of "Double French", as well as the wording from the "first" army from Paris.

xorxes
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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#32 Post by xorxes » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:51 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:22 am
The theory I just posted also has both armies coming from Paris, which makes sense in the context of "Double French", as well as the wording from the "first" army from Paris.
I don't think you can get to 34 in four years that way though. I think what I posted is the only solution in four years, bar minor variations like in the last year it could be any combination of (Bre|Mar)-Por, (Bre|Par|Mar)-Bel

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#33 Post by Squigs44 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:25 am

xorxes wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:51 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:22 am
The theory I just posted also has both armies coming from Paris, which makes sense in the context of "Double French", as well as the wording from the "first" army from Paris.
I don't think you can get to 34 in four years that way though. I think what I posted is the only solution in four years, bar minor variations like in the last year it could be any combination of (Bre|Mar)-Por, (Bre|Par|Mar)-Bel
Yeah, I didn't really play out the whole thing. I'll have to sit down and work through it
some more tomorrow after I get home for the holidays. I just took two higher level math finals and my brain is fried.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#34 Post by Squigs44 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:58 am

woelpad wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:32 am
xorxes wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:20 pm
What do you mean by "the London army"?
It's actually "the army from London", which means that it was built in London, either at the start or in the course of the game. Just wanted to clear that up.
So it was built in London. That debunks the convoy theory.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#35 Post by Squigs44 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:27 am

Solved it. There is a convoy, but it's not a convoy to London, it's a convoy from London. All SCs in four years, with the colors representing the year captured. Build anywhere variant. There is an army built in London.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#36 Post by Claesar » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:36 am

Keep in mind, the solution probably needs to be two countries (on the webDip map) that are also cities.. London, Paris, Moscow, Marseilles, Naples, Rome, Venice, Vienna, Bud, Trieste, Con, Ank, Smy, Sevas, Ber, Mun, Wars, StP, LvP, Edi.

It doesn't make sense to take a train from 'Denmark', only from Kopenhagen.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#37 Post by Squigs44 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:57 am

Yeah, I moved on from the Denmark thing. I can post the solution if you all want, but I figured others would probably want to look at it some more before I spoiled it.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#38 Post by woelpad » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:36 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:57 am
Yeah, I moved on from the Denmark thing. I can post the solution if you all want, but I figured others would probably want to look at it some more before I spoiled it.
A noble thought. If you want recognition, contact me in private with your solution. Otherwise there's no way to tell if you were just boasting or not.
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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#39 Post by xorxes » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:20 am

Ah, I got it!

Same solution I posted, except the last year it's Nth C Lon-Nwy in Spring and then Nwy-StP and Nth-Hol. So the train goes from Moscow to St Petersburg.

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Re: The Stirring Case of the Double French

#40 Post by woelpad » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:28 pm

xorxes wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:20 am
Ah, I got it!

Same solution I posted, except the last year it's Nth C Lon-Nwy in Spring and then Nwy-StP and Nth-Hol. So the train goes from Moscow to St Petersburg.
That's right! As to deciding who solved it first, let's simply agree that the crown is shared between Squigs44, who cracked the color coding, and you, xorxes, who tracked down all the units.

But let me not forget everyone else who participated, sometimes on the mark, sometimes (wildly) off, sometimes just for humor. You were a magnificent audience. I hope you enjoyed it. I know I did.

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