France vs Austria Bot Challenge

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dipperjay
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#181 Post by dipperjay » Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:23 am

MerryBBuck wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:14 am
Doug7878 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:20 am
Playing as Austria, Fairbot has won his last 34 games.
Two wins to end that streak:
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=343777
and a win from 90kicvesb: https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=343796
And to keep it going:
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=343994
I hate winning bots :)
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nathan1312
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#182 Post by nathan1312 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:56 pm

Hello,
I just atarted a FvsA against a bot. But the game doesnt proceed to the next round after pressing "ready".

Can anybody help me?

MerryBBuck
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#183 Post by MerryBBuck » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:22 pm

nathan1312 wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:56 pm
Hello,
I just atarted a FvsA against a bot. But the game doesnt proceed to the next round after pressing "ready".
Every so often, it gets stuck. It can be a few hours; maybe someone has to restart a process. Sorry! I think that's part of the trade-off of having a cool "research" bot.

I blame DNS. If something online goes wrong, it saves time if you just blame DNS right away.

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#184 Post by Doug7878 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:31 am

So, MerryBBuck just beat the Austrian bot again. Not shocking...
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

... but before this game, Fairbot had not lost a single game in his last 61 games as Austria, and, as Austria, has lost only four times in his last 115 games - to MerryBBuck twice, and to dipperjay and 90kicvesb once each.

Congrats, Merry, and congrats to dipperjay and 90kicvesb also.
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Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#185 Post by Doug7878 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:01 am

@RoganJosh
Fairbot can play Austria in FvA, yes ?

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#186 Post by Doug7878 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:19 pm

Congrats to RoganJosh for his win as France against Fairbot in FvA:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

Only 3 wins against Fairbot in the bot's last 100 games as Austria. The other two being by MerryBBuck and dipperjay.

RoganJosh
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#187 Post by RoganJosh » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:58 pm

Yes, it knows how to play Austria. It did few really nice rushes.

I played these as live games, and without a proper sandbox. When the bot played France, that was still good enough to win. But the bot is much better as Austria. Maybe I should have stopped playing the southern opening.. how many tries before I won? I don't remember. But, gees, for a while there it felt like I got all the guesses wrong.
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Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#188 Post by Doug7878 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:11 am

Boom! A followup win by MerryBBuck !

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

Nicely done by both RJ and MBB.

dipperjay
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#189 Post by dipperjay » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:19 am

By far the most bizarre game I played against Fairbot so far:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=347130

An 18-11 rout, a French army in Vienna in 1902 and a bot support order for that same army in Fall 1903. And many more very poor choices.

Just wondering whether this is the quickest game, anyone else beat Fb by 1906?

Not sure what it drank or smoked, but this was madness. But hey, it counts :)
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Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#190 Post by Doug7878 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:59 am

So after 45 or so games without Fairbot (as Austria) losing a single game, we have two more wins:

First, a nice win by Randaz20:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

And then a really unusual and impressive win by bigchungus69 !

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#191 Post by Polynoamial » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:28 pm

Hey folks, we really appreciate you all playing against the bot! It's giving us a lot of insight into potential issues and changes we should make. As you might have noticed, we've made major changes since the first version :)

We're getting a lot of data on how the bot plays as Austria but we'd also love to see strong players playing against France. It's hard to gauge how meaningful the bot's success is as Austria without also knowing how strong it is as France. I'd imagine it's going to lose most of its games against strong players, but there's a big difference between losing 90% and losing 70%!

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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#192 Post by Doug7878 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:01 am

@dipperjay
Beating Fairbot as Austria in 1906 is rare. Besides your last win (GameID 347130), the previous four times were:
GameID 337336 (dipperjay)
GameID 335626 (martinck1)
GameID 334928 (zultar)
GameID 334272 (PigInZen)
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Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#193 Post by Doug7878 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:04 am

And another win as France by RoganJosh:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#194 Post by Doug7878 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:53 am

The most recent 100 wins against the Austrian bot were by:
MerryBBuck (23)
zultar (15)
dipperjay (13)
bozotheclown (10)
Randaz20 (6)
Doug7878 (5)
Djantani (4)
goldfinger0303 (3)
svkris, Superwerty, Roganjosh, michaelf77, jasnah (2 each)
raynoriaga, PigInZen, Mr Midshipman Aird, Matticus13, martinck1, czechveck, christinaFeggy, Bostrup, bigchungus69, azcat1990 and 90kicvesb (1 each)

Congrats to all, especially the most recent winners.

RoganJosh
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#195 Post by RoganJosh » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:45 pm

Is it announced when the bot is updated?
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MerryBBuck
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#196 Post by MerryBBuck » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:21 pm

RoganJosh wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:45 pm
Is it announced when the bot is updated?
I have never seen an announcement. (Since we're the "rats" learning this maze, maybe we're not supposed to know.)

Speaking of rats, what happened to the 1901 builds in this game?
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

RoganJosh
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#197 Post by RoganJosh » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:18 am

Sure, but when the bot is updated, we're not playing the same bot anymore. Kinda relevant to now that you're solving a different puzzle.
MerryBBuck wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:21 pm
Speaking of rats, what happened to the 1901 builds in this game?
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel
Apparently, there is a bug that can rob the bot of its builds... The devs knows about it.

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#198 Post by Doug7878 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:46 am

There's no doubt that the bot's play as Austria was improved several times.

At the time of gameIDs in the 333378-334651 range, the bot lost 23 of 98 games as Austria. We humans were doing pretty well.

There must have been an improvement at this point. Subsequently, there was a period of very few losses, followed by period of scattered losses only to very good players. (11 losses out of 189 games)

When we get to game IDs 336239-339549 there begin to be more losses - 46 out of 320 games. I would guess that this is due to human players adjusting to the bot's new and improved style of play.

At some point soon after game 339549, the bot must have been upgraded again - it loses infrequently after this - only 20 times of the next 332 games.

So, it appears from the patterns of losses, that there were upgrades at certain points, each following increased numbers of losses by Fairbot. This may be wrong (appearances can be deceiving) but this is what I see FWIW.

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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#199 Post by MerryBBuck » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:27 am

I have noticed ~ 4 points in time when fairbot's mix of opening moves changed. E.G. as Austria, fairbot used to love opening to RUM, but lately only opens to GAL. But maybe fairbot's opening turn(s) are just based on a tree of the "best" moves, with a human occasionally tweaking the odds of taking each branch.

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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#200 Post by Doug7878 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:21 pm

A little update - MBB and RJ have established themselves as the top 2 AvF players against Fairbot ("FB").

RJ has played as France many times with a win rate of approximately 20%.
MBB, who has a similar win rate as France, has just played as Austria a number of times, and has beaten FB in 4 of the last five games (80%).

So I ask RJ and MBB (who have proven some level of expertise here) ...
Given equal opponents, does France win only 20%, the remainder being maybe 70-75% Austria wins, and 5-10% draws ?
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