The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:47 pm
The way I see things, unapologetically, but without naming names.
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The Elephant In My Room
https://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=800
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Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:47 pm
[wait for it...]
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:06 pm
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:17 pm
Hey, that hasn’t started yet!!
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:54 pm
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:18 pm
FTR - I have always preferred He Who Must Not Be Named, but especially so in this current period of sensitivity to naming names.
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:47 pm
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:31 pm
Okay, I created this thread because of a certain person on this site that seems to be excessively bitter with me, in an attempt to clear the air, especially since the cause of the bitterness seems to be adherence to unwritten rules (which are difficult to abide by when you don't know them). Though, that said, I think there are exceptions to every rule, which I will explain in greater detail later on.
So, a little while back I joined a GvI game against a very good GvI player, when I was just starting that variant, trying to learn how the flow of that particular variant works. This very good player misordered, in fall of 1901 (as I recall), and proceeded to throw a temper tantrum of epic proportions. Regardless of how that specific game played out, there are a few different ways that person could have reacted to his misorder (all of which I've seen done on this site):
1. Man up, be accountable for his actions, point out his mistake and congratulate his opponent on victory.
2. Express disappointment in such a silly mistake and ask his opponent if there is any way he would consider restarting the game and/or agreeing to some other way to fix the mistake.
3. Take on an Entitlement attitude that everyone is required to proceed exactly as he sees fit, in the timeline he deems appropriate, and if not, whine and bitch and moan repeatedly in the hopes of eventually getting his way.
Of course there are many variations of the approaches listed above, and you don't even have to be sincere about them, you can try out #1 and if that gets you no where, try #2, and save #3 as a last resort...
So, that is the questions, how to respond to a 1901 misorder. I'm not familiar with 1v1 etiquette, but I've made critical misorders on webDip with a hell of a lot more on the line than this insignificant GvI game, and I have lived to tell the tale (sort of, though I am still a little bitter, right Peter?!), so I hope one day this guy can come to terms with this one game as well (or at least move significantly in that direction).
In my defense, there were a number of factors in play that resulted in my *not* canceling the game:
1. I had played this same guy once before, in the recent past, as Germany, and I wanted to play him as Italy, which was the case in the game he misordered in. If we restart, I may not get Italy back, and I *really* wanted Italy. Also, at the time, I felt much more comfortable playing Italy than Germany, the entire flow of German strategy was a mystery to me, so I wanted to see how he approached a game as Germany, first hand, while I play Italy.
2. As a press player, and in life, I'm pretty reactionary. Maybe based on being taught the Golden Rule as a child. If someone is good to me, I try to be good to them. If someone throws a hissy fit like a spoiled brat because I'm not giving them their bottle, it's not very likely I'm going to reward that behavior. Again, if my opponent had taken a different approach to how he responded to *his* misorder, I may very well have reacted differently, but we'll never know.
3. This is the most important reason. I'm not real good at learning how a game works by looking at other games, I actually need to be in the game and be faced with the decisions myself to understand what's going on. The problem with not being very good at GvI (at the time of this game, I have improved since), when playing someone that is good, is that it's not very likely that I am going to learn a lot, because the odds of me making a stupid mistakes any give season is relatively high, and the moment I do make a stupid mistake, a quality opponent will crush me because of that, and all I will have learned is how to not make that *one* stupid mistake, when there are *hundreds* of stupid mistakes to learn about... So, with my opponent's misorder, I was given a *huge* advantage, one that would have led to certain victory if that was my top goal of the game, but my top goal was to learn how to play Germany in the GvI variant, win lose or draw, so this misorder was a golden opportunity for me to learn a *lot* quickly. Given that this German was *much* better than me at GvI, and given the fact that he was *way* behind, and especially since he made it clear how bitter he was with me, it seemed obvious to me that he was going to pull every strategic trick out from up his sleeve, that he would do anything and everything he could to win, and this is the exact sort of thing I *needed* to witness first hand, to learn about how to play Germany, which areas of the board to focus on and when, etc., etc. Also, given that, and given the fact I could win if I wanted, I was incentivized to submit "poor" orders in an attempt to facilitate my opponent having a reasonable chance at victory, so I could see how he did it (which is to say, even though I did not cancel, the point of not canceling was not so that I could guarantee victory, I was more than willing to make a game of it). What I mean by that, for example, from my limited experience in GvI at the time, it seemed like a very *very* good idea to have the fleet that initially goes to Tunis, to then go to North Africa, so it can support a fleet into West Med and then the fleet in West Med supports the fleet in NA to MAO. So, in that scenario, I intentionally ordered Tunis to West Med, to see how my quality opponent takes advantage of that "poor" approach, and to see how he orchestrates that portion of the board, while also being mindful of the other critical areas of the board, etc., etc. In the end, my opponent won (don't get me wrong, I would have preferred to win, but winning simply was not my top priority in that game), so I would have assumed all's well that ends well, as far as he's concerned, but...
So, a little while back I joined a GvI game against a very good GvI player, when I was just starting that variant, trying to learn how the flow of that particular variant works. This very good player misordered, in fall of 1901 (as I recall), and proceeded to throw a temper tantrum of epic proportions. Regardless of how that specific game played out, there are a few different ways that person could have reacted to his misorder (all of which I've seen done on this site):
1. Man up, be accountable for his actions, point out his mistake and congratulate his opponent on victory.
2. Express disappointment in such a silly mistake and ask his opponent if there is any way he would consider restarting the game and/or agreeing to some other way to fix the mistake.
3. Take on an Entitlement attitude that everyone is required to proceed exactly as he sees fit, in the timeline he deems appropriate, and if not, whine and bitch and moan repeatedly in the hopes of eventually getting his way.
Of course there are many variations of the approaches listed above, and you don't even have to be sincere about them, you can try out #1 and if that gets you no where, try #2, and save #3 as a last resort...
So, that is the questions, how to respond to a 1901 misorder. I'm not familiar with 1v1 etiquette, but I've made critical misorders on webDip with a hell of a lot more on the line than this insignificant GvI game, and I have lived to tell the tale (sort of, though I am still a little bitter, right Peter?!), so I hope one day this guy can come to terms with this one game as well (or at least move significantly in that direction).
In my defense, there were a number of factors in play that resulted in my *not* canceling the game:
1. I had played this same guy once before, in the recent past, as Germany, and I wanted to play him as Italy, which was the case in the game he misordered in. If we restart, I may not get Italy back, and I *really* wanted Italy. Also, at the time, I felt much more comfortable playing Italy than Germany, the entire flow of German strategy was a mystery to me, so I wanted to see how he approached a game as Germany, first hand, while I play Italy.
2. As a press player, and in life, I'm pretty reactionary. Maybe based on being taught the Golden Rule as a child. If someone is good to me, I try to be good to them. If someone throws a hissy fit like a spoiled brat because I'm not giving them their bottle, it's not very likely I'm going to reward that behavior. Again, if my opponent had taken a different approach to how he responded to *his* misorder, I may very well have reacted differently, but we'll never know.
3. This is the most important reason. I'm not real good at learning how a game works by looking at other games, I actually need to be in the game and be faced with the decisions myself to understand what's going on. The problem with not being very good at GvI (at the time of this game, I have improved since), when playing someone that is good, is that it's not very likely that I am going to learn a lot, because the odds of me making a stupid mistakes any give season is relatively high, and the moment I do make a stupid mistake, a quality opponent will crush me because of that, and all I will have learned is how to not make that *one* stupid mistake, when there are *hundreds* of stupid mistakes to learn about... So, with my opponent's misorder, I was given a *huge* advantage, one that would have led to certain victory if that was my top goal of the game, but my top goal was to learn how to play Germany in the GvI variant, win lose or draw, so this misorder was a golden opportunity for me to learn a *lot* quickly. Given that this German was *much* better than me at GvI, and given the fact that he was *way* behind, and especially since he made it clear how bitter he was with me, it seemed obvious to me that he was going to pull every strategic trick out from up his sleeve, that he would do anything and everything he could to win, and this is the exact sort of thing I *needed* to witness first hand, to learn about how to play Germany, which areas of the board to focus on and when, etc., etc. Also, given that, and given the fact I could win if I wanted, I was incentivized to submit "poor" orders in an attempt to facilitate my opponent having a reasonable chance at victory, so I could see how he did it (which is to say, even though I did not cancel, the point of not canceling was not so that I could guarantee victory, I was more than willing to make a game of it). What I mean by that, for example, from my limited experience in GvI at the time, it seemed like a very *very* good idea to have the fleet that initially goes to Tunis, to then go to North Africa, so it can support a fleet into West Med and then the fleet in West Med supports the fleet in NA to MAO. So, in that scenario, I intentionally ordered Tunis to West Med, to see how my quality opponent takes advantage of that "poor" approach, and to see how he orchestrates that portion of the board, while also being mindful of the other critical areas of the board, etc., etc. In the end, my opponent won (don't get me wrong, I would have preferred to win, but winning simply was not my top priority in that game), so I would have assumed all's well that ends well, as far as he's concerned, but...
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:45 pm
Believe you me, I'm not bitter about that game at all. VI, on the other hand... I'm surprised he doesn't insist on checking over all your orders in the World Cup!MadMarx wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:31 pm
So, that is the questions, how to respond to a 1901 misorder. I'm not familiar with 1v1 etiquette, but I've made critical misorders on webDip with a hell of a lot more on the line than this insignificant GvI game, and I have lived to tell the tale (sort of, though I am still a little bitter, right Peter?!), so I hope one day this guy can come to terms with this one game as well (or at least move significantly in that direction).
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:07 am
Of course not, you were gifted a victory you didn’t earn, who doesn’t like a free present?peterwiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:45 pm
Believe you me, I'm not bitter about that game at all.
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:07 am
Sounds like you're definitely not bitter either 
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:17 am
When did I gain a reputation for being anal retentive?peterwiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:45 pmVI, on the other hand... I'm surprised he doesn't insist on checking over all your orders in the World Cup!
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:59 am
I'm not really sure what the purpose of this thread is, but I assume you're looking for some kind of comment on the situation from the community. Very well.
Sounds to me like you were a bit of a prick there, mate :).
Sounds to me like you were a bit of a prick there, mate :).
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:38 pm
I think this is simply a commercial for Delirium Tremens.
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:29 pm
Thanks for the feedback Octavious!
To live life is to risk being “a bit of a prick” from time to time, especially when interacting with people that think differently than you, can make things quite interesting/entertaining for those involved (and to witness). You’re welcome.
To live life is to risk being “a bit of a prick” from time to time, especially when interacting with people that think differently than you, can make things quite interesting/entertaining for those involved (and to witness). You’re welcome.
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:50 pm
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:12 am
FTR - I never have, and never will, ask someone to restart (or alter) a 1v1 game because of a misorder I submit, and I don’t think it’s a crime to expect others to live up to a similar standard (though of course they are free to proceed however they wish, just as I am free to ridicule them depending on how they proceed).
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:01 am
You say that, but I seem to recall a big retirement post a couple years ago.
#foolmeonce
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:43 am
Did you miss the part where it was a self-imposed week-long retirement?
Re: The Elephant In My Room
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:41 pm
You mean a full week to taunt with no chance to respond? Yes, I heard.