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thisisntme wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:17 pm

TrPrado wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:41 pm

peterlund wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:18 am

Religion leads to war, blood shed and less freedom for the individual.

Everything leads to war, but that discussion would be much more suited for the Politics forum

Yeah, but, since the politics forum doesn't display on the front page you can't use trolly clickbait as effectively.

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What is good, what is bad, what is just, and what is lawful are all very different things. Gods had a place in explaining what things were at one point. Why is there thunder, Odin/Zeus/Kadlu/Raijin are angry. Now we know that a localized difference in charge between the atmosphere and the ground exceeds a threshold and discharges. Gods don't die we lose the use for them and discard them. We may keep traditions and practices but we don't need them. Heck, gods never even told us right from wrong, they've all done some fucked up shit, even Yahweh/Jesus/Allah.

Besides the death of gods isn't the death of logic. At the time gods were a logical explanation, now they are not.

peterlund wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:18 am

Religion leads to war, blood shed and less freedom for the individual.

I think wars are because of money ambition. People use religions to mask their real intention. Because we all know religions sometimes fight with their coreligionists. Of course different religions want to have dominance over other religions, but I believe more than 80% of religious wars real reason are money desire. Like Syrian Oil.

Im with Ogion.

gimme some of that religious penetration

The idea that Gods can die is I think called a non sequitur. Omniscient, Omnipotent higher dimensional beings can probably not die as we know death.
Much more Importantly, I thought this Disco music was what the young Blighters & Slappers of today jiggled about to as part of adolescent mating rituals fuelled by a heady mix of Alcohol, various drugs and raging hormones. How will they manage to procreate if as is reported, Disco is dead ? Will Jazz music make a comeback ?
Ah, Glorious Jazz music. I recall a time when inspired by Cole Porter I wood a beautiful young Her Lovely Imperiousness & look where that landed me all these years later. Those roguish Jazz blighters have a lot to answer for on the Day of Judgement.

Despite all of this, religion is "highly conserved" across cultures worldwide and across tens of thousands of years, deep into prehistory, almost without exception.

If cultures are subject to selective pressure, this conservation would suggest that religion provides some advantage to the societies that possess it.

Good luck arguing with this lot, Inc.

By the reaction this thread got, I'd be surprised if half of them even knew where the quote is from.

Ogion wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:17 am

Is anyone else creeped out when people claim that without god nothing is right or wrong? It's like people are admitting that their religion is the only thing keeping them from running through the streets raping and gutting children like they REALLY want to.

I believe you are missing the point here.

Your sense of right and wrong comes from the part of God that is inside you, so even if you do not believe in God you still can be moral(NOT rapping and gutting children).

It is not the religion, whatever it may be, that is "keeping" the individual from doing wrong(in fact the Christian God allows us free will to choose if we want to do right or wrong) it is your "conscience"(I see it as the part of God inside me) telling you that those things are wrong.

Finally religion and God are not the same thing. One can have God without religion and religion without God. Religion is simply a human construct to help us get closer to God. My personal belief is that Christianity is the true religion, and others(such as Islam), are completely human made things designed to help us puny people cope with life.

Tanteno wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:31 pm

they've all done some fucked up shit, even Yahweh/Jesus/Allah.

What fucked up shit did Jesus do exactly? Do you even know what you're talking about?

If God is dead then why do some of us still occasionally taste love?

Love is basic sexual instinct needed for the survival of the human spieces.

God has nothing at all to do with love.

Love and sexual intercourse are not always the same thing, Peter. But anyway they have nothing to do with God, of course.

Jamie, nice that you put things really straight here! :)

But the main purpose and effect of "love" is that we and all the other spices on this planet reproduce. It may seem odd to hear a non-religious humanist talk about "purpose", but that word should of course been seen from a pure Darwinistic angle.

Is that an acute or obtuse angle ?

I'm also concerned about the 'other spices' reproducing on our planet.

peterlund wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:55 pm

Love is basic sexual instinct needed for the survival of the human spieces.

God has nothing at all to do with love.

How do you know this? I could as easily postulate that love is the very essence of the unseen world. The glue that holds everything together. From this viewpoint, God is everywhere around us and in everything that exists.

"like a plague" Well put. However, actually google suggests that atheism or secularism is rising fast and is now the third largest religious grouping.
(for examle: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... -religion/)

That's not too suprising with the spread of education and rising living standards.

And most typically prince william, almost without exception, was "gods" not "god" Also , there were all manner of other superstition, as well as rape, murder, slavery, etc. everywhere. I think you're right, one would be unwise to underestimate religion, lest those folks start blowing things up and flying airplanes into buildings and so forth as those folks seem to like to do.

Love is a pretty standard primate instinct among social species. Certainly, romantic love has a lot to do with child rearing, but conscience is a result of that same primate biology, as is god, for that matter.
gods of course die when we don't have use for them and discard them. You can tell because gods are always coming and going. So many gods, all of them conveniently echoing what those pushing them want to see.

You really honestly believe that we evolved emotion? You think we have a sense of right and wrong because it's in our DNA?

Ogion wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:43 pm

I think you're right, one would be unwise to underestimate religion, lest those folks start blowing things up and flying airplanes into buildings and so forth as those folks seem to like to do.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone resort to "those folks/those people" twice in the same sentence. The implication seems to be that atheists (i.e. not "those folks") would not resort to violent tactics, which history of the Soviet Union, particularly during the 1930s, would directly contradict.

I don't doubt that any ideology can be taken to immoral extremes; but I think that the only reason atheistic social organizations seem to offer fewer examples is because most such groups are very recent and/or short-lived.

And if the argument is that most atheists do not ascribe to totalitarian secular government, the reality is that most religious people do not ascribe to terrorism either.

@ Ogion

To quote from your article:

religion is growing so fast that nones’ share of the global population will actually shrink in 25 years as the world turns into what one researcher has described as “the secularizing West and the rapidly growing rest."

Now I will agree completely that those who claim to hold no religion has grown substantially in the West over the last century or so, but the potential for further growth is somewhat limited in the West, and we're not seeing a similar phenomenon elsewhere.

On a personal note I will say I prefer a thinking Christian over the sort of person who claims to have no religion but believes in spiritualist crap, crystals, and homeopathy any day. Secularism does not necessarily breed enlightenment, nor does religious belief prevent it.