Is spanking an acceptable form of discipline?

[flash2015]

Growing up my bottom would get wailed on whenever I made a scene but looking back, I wonder if that technically counts as abuse? I turned out okay so maybe it worked (It didn't even really hurt, I just pretended it did so they wouldn't spank as long) But maybe I should be angry about this in hindsight?

Do parents here spank their children?

not technically. It is. Generally, negative aversive training doesn't do any good except to inflict trauma. There's a mountain of behavioral research demonstrating tht it largely doesn't work and has all kinds of negative consequences.

Actually, the same is true in dog training, and shock collars and prong collars are also pretty much inthe abuse cateogry.

What does work is positive reinforcement. It's how you train dogs. It's how you train lions. It's also how you train humans.

You are presenting a false dichotomy here - positive reinforcement or "the beatings will continue until morale improves". The issue is far more nuanced than this.

My wife teaches in a NYC school. Kids can curse at her with impunity (some of the things the kids say are truly horrible and disgusting). The idea of "positive reinforcement only" mean that there is no punishment allowed for this behaviour (the principal told her "this is part of their culture so this is OK"). This is nuts. If we let them get away with it now, what happens in a few years when they interact with a cop in the streets...and do the same?

If my wife tries to fail a child because they do no work she pretty much has to put her job on the line to do it. She has learnt pretty quickly that you should pass everyone no matter what. Again, the kids are learning there are no consequences for not making an effort. How does that help the kids when they enroll in post-secondary education or try to get a job?

[MajorMitchell]

Gosh Flash, where do I start in response?

Yes, it's illogical imho to raise children to believe that they can "flout the rules" and there will be no negative consequences.
One of the punishments used in Australian criminal courts considered to be better than imposing fines or imprisonment for lower level criminal offences is a combination of community service work & good behaviour bonds..eg a twelve month good behaviour bond.
So I often see suoervised gangs of persons in orange hi vis kit picking up rubbish etc beside.highways etc.
Isn't that a modern variation on 1950s-60s experienced and excellent teacher Mr Dansie's "Emu Parade punishments"?. .his alternative to the application of Percy Persuader which in those times was allowed.
I had male classmates who I know would have much preferred "one of the best" from Percy Persuader than a half hour or hour of Emu Parade.

Isn't it illogical to insist that a professional teacher should endure offensive behaviour etc, from students and assert that putting the (often recidivists because of a lack of negative consequences) in orange overalls, giving them the gloves, tongs & bag & making them do a bit of useful work under supervision is some form of child abuse?

The decline of rigorous standards in education and training?
Private sector training providers who churn out newly minted certificate holders, where the pass/fail ratio is 98%/2% (the person who didn't turn up for class fails).. I've done industry courses and there's always three or four in fifteen students who, after much coaching "qualify" and I've known that's ethically questionable to put it lightly.imho.

[MajorMitchell]

It's interesting to compare how much effort we put into our training for our working career vis a vis how inadequately we prepare ourselves for parenting.
My crude tools included theatrical antics in teaching basic maths at kindergarten/early primary skool age. Posing questions like 'Quick, what's six times seven? Thirty nine or Forty three? You'll never get it!(mock challenge).. then once the correct answer.had been agreed upon, immediately scale it up, "Well.whats six times seven hundred thousand? " & I'd prance about like a clown, and put on a display of shock when child deduced correct answer, & scale.it up again. "What's sixty times.seven.million?
Make it fun was my tactic.. I used things like a version of part of Macbeth to teach very young children to write. The witches recipe.
Fire burn and cauldron bubble.. Cool it with a Babboons blood, then the charm is firm and good, etc
Her Serene Loving Imperiousness Indoors & myself presented two children to primary skool who could sing or quote snippets of Shakespeare, copy them.out clumsily with pencil on paper & excellent for age maths.abilities. On Randolph's fourth birthday there was the ceremony of glueing to his bedroom wall.a poster of the Periodic table.of Elements as one part of festivities. The big present that birthday was a baby Crow fledgling that he had to hand feed and care for 24/7. His mother had kniited him a new jumper with a pouch for the fledgling crow, so they were inseparable, boy, jumper and crow & the poster of Elements received much less attention.

[MajorMitchell]

Proof I'm a Baboon by misspelling