circumcision

General discussions that don't fit in other forums can go here.
Forum rules
Feel free to discuss any topics here. Please use the Politics sub-forum for political conversations. While most topics will be allowed please be sure to be respectful and follow our normal site rules at http://www.webdiplomacy.net/rules.php.
Message
Author
Octavious
Posts: 980
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 725
Contact:

Re: circumcision

#101 Post by Octavious » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:34 pm

To judge is human, Wusti. Everyone does it everyday. I have no idea how one would be able to function without it. I make no apologies for being judgemental. As for the terminology, the words I used are an accurate reflection of my opinions on the matter. Terms such as mutilation and disfigurement describe the procedure as I see it.

As for the kick up the bollocks, it is colourful language perhaps but essentially is simply a statement that I view the imposition of circumcision on a person without consent or pressing medical reason should be considered an act potentially worthy of punishment. By saying it should be a free pass, clearly anyone circumcised who decides it was a good thing wouldn't impose such an action. So the meaning (spelled out in tedious detail) is that people who have had their perfectly healthy genitals cut and partially removed against their wishes should have a means of recompense.

There have been people here who disagree, and that's fine. Jamiet and the Major have my respect and very different views, and all is good.
1

Restitution
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:00 am
Karma: 30

Re: circumcision

#102 Post by Restitution » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:43 pm

Babies literally go into shock when they are circumcised. The reason they stop crying isn't because everything's fine... it's because they're being traumatized.

flash2015
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Karma: 317

Re: circumcision

#103 Post by flash2015 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:28 pm

I see we are still close to the top. Good job, guys!
1

CruaaderReynauld
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:52 pm
Location: Texas
Karma: 16
Contact:

Re: circumcision

#104 Post by CruaaderReynauld » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:52 am

Restitution wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:43 pm
Babies literally go into shock when they are circumcised. The reason they stop crying isn't because everything's fine... it's because they're being traumatized.
Well that explains why I want to die all the time.

Smokey Gem
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:39 am
Location: Western Australia
Karma: 49

Re: circumcision

#105 Post by Smokey Gem » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:21 am

Magellan did the first circumcision of the globe it sort of caught on as a fad after that until mid 20 century with antibiotics being able to help then the fad dropped off.

My long term partner is snipped above and below. So no extra surprises after sex through thrush or unplanned kids.
1

flash2015
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Karma: 317

Re: circumcision

#106 Post by flash2015 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:36 pm

In response to Wustl comparing Folau's actions to calling circumcision "genetic mutilation", I don't believe that comparison is a valid one.

In Folau's case, he provides no valid reason for why homosexuality is morally wrong. "Because the Bible says so" is not a valid argument. Saying it is "unnatural" is not a valid argument either as it has been shown many animals also engage in homosexual behaviour. He also is saying that all homosexuals by definition are evil thus inviting hatred of them...which most people are going to say is wrong. He also did not even understand the Bible passage he quoted. The Bible passage he quoted mentions "fornication", not homosexuality. "Fornication" is sex outside marriage, so in some ways you could argue that quoting this passage is pushing FOR gay marriage...rather than advocating against homosexuality. :-D

In the contraception case, there are valid reasons why people think contraception is wrong. At least from a European perspective (it isn't a left vs. right thing), in most cases there is no valid medical reason for the procedure. And it is done to young babies before they are able to give their consent. It seems logical that if we call cutting the genitals of women mutilation we should call male circumcision the same thing. I don't think anyone was calling for hatred of those who are circumcised. The only potential hatred put forth was for those parents that did circumcise their children without the child's permission and without valid medical reason...which may be a reasonable response if you agree with the European perspective on the merits of circumcision (disclaimer - I am...uh..."cut"). Since you have a medical reason for doing the procedure, I don't see how these criticisms apply to you...so I am not sure why you are offended.

If you wanted to argue against the "circumcision is bad" argument, there are much more useful arguments to make. For example, the American Association Of Pediatrics disagrees with the European assessment and states the benefits outweigh the risks:

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap ... ision.aspx

even though their assessment falls short of advocating routine male circumcision.

You could also argue that this assessment has changed a lot over the last century. Condemning parents for performing actions 20,30,40,50 years ago based on current research and medical assessments is kind of unfair.

Again, I don't see why you got upset here. I don't see the hate you saw. And if you had done some research you could have provided an alternative opinion on contraception rather than making an invalid comparison to the Folau case.
2

Wusti
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 pm
Karma: 28

Re: circumcision

#107 Post by Wusti » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:27 pm

OK a few issues with that:

Firstly, religious types would argue that "because the Bible(insert relevant text here) says" is a perfectly good argument. I don't subscribe to that view, but some might. Your disagreement doesn't invalidate it.

Secondly, my original statements referring Left wing etc, was a generic reference to those who chose to appoint themselves to high moral grounds and inflict political correctness on the rest of us, almost always based on 3rd party accounts of anecdotal rather than scientific evidence. I do not apologise for it because in my opinion that space is most often inhabited by rabid left wingers. In mainstram politics however I am typically just a tad left of centre - but that was not what i was referring to.

The offense wasn't for someone objecting to the practice - which was the point of that Folau story - it was the way they chose to express it, and I wasn't alone. "why the hate" and even the irrepressable MM made comment to the way it was being discussed. My offense was for the insensitivity of those who described in the way they did to those of us who happen to have had the procedure for any reason. Had someone just been routinely done, I'm sure that the commentary here could really upset someone who had issues with it themselves. Frankly, I saw it as no different from fat shaming, slut shaming, and all such practices where the insensitivity can cause offense.

Just because you personally didn't doesn't invalidate my reaction. I actually don't give a fuck what some random Diplo player on the internet thinks of a dick that isn't his. Doesn't mean I shouldn't call out that kind of behaviour. The fact that some were offended by my reference to Onanism as MM so quaintly put it, gave them a reflection of what they were doing. You don't have to agree with my method - that's fine.

Lastly, as stated above my offense wasn't their opinion, it was the expression of it that got my goat. I also think its probably not something that you could effectively disprove to those with such strong opinions about something which doesn't affect them. Which is also a source of some ire. If you're a bloke and you are uncut - why feel the need to come onto a interwebs forum and express your indignation and revulsion of the practice which doesn't even remotely affect you? Hence my derision - hard to respect someone's opinion in that scenario, especially when they whack you over the head with it and stamp their feet - they could easily just not do it to any sons they may have in the future. Problem solved.

I really do shake my head at people sometimes.

Anyhoo - MM has a hirsute big knob - something we can all sleep better knowing.

Octavious
Posts: 980
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 725
Contact:

Re: circumcision

#108 Post by Octavious » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:41 pm

Wusti wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:27 pm
Lastly, as stated above my offense wasn't their opinion, it was the expression of it that got my goat. I also think its probably not something that you could effectively disprove to those with such strong opinions about something which doesn't affect them. Which is also a source of some ire. If you're a bloke and you are uncut - why feel the need to come onto a interwebs forum and express your indignation and revulsion of the practice which doesn't even remotely affect you? Hence my derision - hard to respect someone's opinion in that scenario, especially when they whack you over the head with it and stamp their feet - they could easily just not do it to any sons they may have in the future. Problem solved.
You went on to a forum thread about circumcision where you were shocked and appalled to find people expressing their opinions about circumcision, and then went out of your way to express your poor opinion of people who express their opinions on the internet?

Well, that makes perfect sense.

On a wider and more profound point, I am increasingly concerned by the seemingly growing numbers of people who believe that you can only have an opinion on something that immediately and directly affects you. To me this is some of the most dangerous and closed minded thinking you can fall into. To draw inspiration from the famous verse: No man is an island entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. Any man's death diminishes me, any injustice wrongs us all.
3

flash2015
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Karma: 317

Re: circumcision

#109 Post by flash2015 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:31 pm

Something is wrong. This isn't on top!

MajorMitchell
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:05 am
Location: As directed by The Fire Breathing MemSahib, Her Imperiousness Indoors lying on a sofa eating​ cakes
Karma: 141

Re: circumcision

#110 Post by MajorMitchell » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:33 pm

I'm Australian and know something about the Folau case. It's just ridiculous to suggest that there are any pertinent similarities between that case and Wusti's transgression of Forum rules & the rebuke by Jmo.
.I think Wusti is being deliberately obstinate. I'm confident that Wusti is quite capable of criticising the contributions of others in an acceptable way. He would also be more effective that way. Right now it's easy to dismiss his views because of his, imho, defiant refusal to be reasonable. There's a tip in that, criticise the message, don't abuse the messenger. None of us are without fault, certainly I have plenty of faults.
The Almighty Mods work hard to make WebDiplomacy function, imagine what the Forum might be like if Maniac and I were left in charge.

Wusti
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 pm
Karma: 28

Re: circumcision

#111 Post by Wusti » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:43 am

The parallel is that Folau was terminated for direction of proselytisation, just as my objection was the way in which the results of circumcision were described - wholly lacking in empathy and sensitivity.

MM, Obstinate is my middle name! Now go back to regaling us with tales unlikely and improbable of your prodigious member.

MajorMitchell
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:05 am
Location: As directed by The Fire Breathing MemSahib, Her Imperiousness Indoors lying on a sofa eating​ cakes
Karma: 141

Re: circumcision

#112 Post by MajorMitchell » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:39 am

Dearest Wusti, there are a number of significant differences between your situation and that of Israel Folau.
You're posting in the Forum which is a unique environment with it's own rules. You do not enjoy in the Forum rights that exist in nation states. So any notional rights to freedom of expression that might apply to Israel Folau simply do not apply here, they are totally irrelevant to your situation.

Israel Folau has been in strife with Rugby Australia before over his controversial and some would describe as extremist, others would describe as extremely conservative, fundamentalist religious beliefs.
Subsequent to these previous controversies, he negotiated a new extremely lucrative contract with Rugby Australia with clauses that specifically dealt with him making public comments that are totally inconsistent with the declared position of his employer, Rugby Australia on a range of social issues.
If you make a contract, all parties involved in the contract must adhere to the conditions and terms of the contract..
Israel Folau seems to want it both ways, he signed up as a servant to Mammon ( that is, he wants the big money and agreed to the terms and conditions attached to that deal) but he also wants to publicly breach those commitments he made and indulge in provocative, offensive, public religious expression.
Israel Folau wants to worship a God who hates certain people, I'd suggest that the Deity of Hatred is Satan & maybe Israel Folau is following False Prophets & worshiping the wrong God.

The Christian God is purportedly a God of Love, he dislikes, even detests sinful acts, but he reputedly loves the sinner and is alleged to, through Jesus offer even the worst sinners a path to redemption and forgiveness.

MajorMitchell
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:05 am
Location: As directed by The Fire Breathing MemSahib, Her Imperiousness Indoors lying on a sofa eating​ cakes
Karma: 141

Re: circumcision

#113 Post by MajorMitchell » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:45 am

In other news, my pale blue V8 Mercedes Panzer Benz saloon has had new disc brake pads fitted today. Das Schweine~hunds of the highways had better keepen das heads down & out of mein way.

Fluminator
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 171

Re: circumcision

#114 Post by Fluminator » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:13 pm

I don't even understand any of the posts in this thread anymore.
1

Wusti
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 pm
Karma: 28

Re: circumcision

#115 Post by Wusti » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:54 am

MM missed my point, thinks I'm still a bad man for calling someone an Onanist, the proceeded to turn Christianity on its head and insult Germans - all in a single post. Nice work buddy.

MajorMitchell
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:05 am
Location: As directed by The Fire Breathing MemSahib, Her Imperiousness Indoors lying on a sofa eating​ cakes
Karma: 141

Re: circumcision

#116 Post by MajorMitchell » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:13 pm

I get busy for a few days and return to find this thread third ranked, but good news is over 2,000 views.. there's a lot of voyeurism going on & it's only to be encouraged.
Wusti, most Germans are pragmatic with a sense of humour, and I don't think they will be unduly upset by reading about my love of a German designed vehicle, it's a South African made Mercedes Panzer Benz. I'm really tempted to paint little squares with Toyota/Nissan/Landrover/Kia & Skippy the kangaroo etc symbols on the front doors, like fighter pilots do to denote "kills".

MajorMitchell
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:05 am
Location: As directed by The Fire Breathing MemSahib, Her Imperiousness Indoors lying on a sofa eating​ cakes
Karma: 141

Re: circumcision

#117 Post by MajorMitchell » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:17 pm

Wusti, I did not make a statement of fact to the effect that Israel Folau is worshiping Satan. I suggested it as an opinion, and as a possibility & made no comment about him being, or not being an onanist.

flash2015
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Karma: 317

Re: circumcision

#118 Post by flash2015 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:11 pm

MajorMitchell wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:13 pm
I get busy for a few days and return to find this thread third ranked, but good news is over 2,000 views.. there's a lot of voyeurism going on & it's only to be encouraged.
To be fair it is probably me just refreshing the page.. :razz:
1

Wusti
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 pm
Karma: 28

Re: circumcision

#119 Post by Wusti » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:06 am

Stop worrying about MM's dick.

MajorMitchell
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:05 am
Location: As directed by The Fire Breathing MemSahib, Her Imperiousness Indoors lying on a sofa eating​ cakes
Karma: 141

Re: circumcision

#120 Post by MajorMitchell » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:06 pm

I wonder if cosmetic procedures for Men's penises will become as fashionable as cosmetic procedures for feminine genitalia has apparently become.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest