Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

General discussions that don't fit in other forums can go here.
Forum rules
Feel free to discuss any topics here. Please use the Politics sub-forum for political conversations. While most topics will be allowed please be sure to be respectful and follow our normal site rules at http://www.webdiplomacy.net/rules.php.
Post Reply
Message
Author
Vom Kriege
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:06 pm
Karma: 10

Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#1 Post by Vom Kriege » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:37 pm

I came across the following statement on a forum which inspired this topic:

“Call it a weakness, but I don't stab my first, best ally, and even the associates get a fair warning. Maybe silly, but I sleep at night and look in the mirror without wincing. People who pass off stabbing by saying, "It's only a game," make me wonder why they stab at all. If it is only a game, then it isn't worth being a jerk about.”

My interpretation of the objective of Diplomacy is to be the sole controller of the map (i.e. a majority of supply centers). Though a draw is a recognized secondary objective, it is not considered a win.

Deceit, lies, betrayal and stabs are recognized features of Diplomacy. That said, are there lines that you won’t cross so you can “look in the mirror without wincing”, that would otherwise advance your game in the pursuit of victory (i.e. a solo) or the secondary objective (i.e. a draw)? What do you think should be proper Diplomacy etiquette relating to deceit, lies, betrayal and stabs? Or, is it ‘absolutely anything goes in the pursuit of the game objectives’?

I look forward to hearing players’ perspectives on this topic.

Jamiet99uk
Posts: 3815
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 735
Contact:

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#2 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:13 pm

Absolutely anything goes.

VillageIdiot
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:55 am
Karma: 144

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#3 Post by VillageIdiot » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:59 pm

This is a game for sociopaths with charisma and grace.

Andyyy
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:36 am
Karma: 5

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#4 Post by Andyyy » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:08 pm

I totally agree. A bunch of weaker players had a coalition of spite against me in a now completed game, despite trusting the most ridiculous proposals from me. I believe that's their fault, not mine.

My favourite quote was "but you didn't outplay me, you just stabbed me".

My favourite action, by that same player which I shall not defame, was after I had just convoyed into Tus as France in F02, I convinced them it was to support Rom-Ven, after a crumbling Austria had taken it early.

Incredibly, they believed me and when Ven was left vacant by Austria in S03, I took Rom and then promptly Ven in fall.

And apparently this debacle wasn't their fault?

Hmm. Didn't realise I was that sociopathic and convincing a liar.
1

brainbomb
Posts: 6180
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Location: Not Mars?
Karma: 644

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#5 Post by brainbomb » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:29 pm

andy gets it

mhsmith0
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:35 am
Karma: 44

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#6 Post by mhsmith0 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:41 am

The only stab to be ashamed of is an ineffective stab. If you stab someone and it fails to put yourself in much better position, or just enables someone else's solo (unless that was your explicit intention of course) then you should feel bad. For the rest? It's a game not a life commitment.
8

Claesar
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:34 am
Karma: 277

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#7 Post by Claesar » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:21 pm

Anything goes for the first solo attempt. I have very few mirrors in my house so it's never an issue.

After that, I wouldn't try for the solo again while others are cutting the draw. That's wherr I draw the line. I also frequently don't cut the draw myself, when I feel a player was instrumental in preventing the solo and therefore deserves to be a part. That's also a principal thing; if you cut when the stalemate is established, how can you scold players who fail to set up in the next game?

Vom Kriege
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:06 pm
Karma: 10

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#8 Post by Vom Kriege » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:03 pm

Oh, all of you sociopaths, who will do ANYTHING to advance your games... holding hands together and singing Kumbaya! ;)

Sadly for me, there are a few mirrors in my house. Where a gain is immaterial I very typically side on taking the high road. I question the judgement of players who will stab somebody (an ally throughout the game) on the closing turns of a SoS, non-tournament game that is clearly going to be a draw, just to grab one (or two) extra supply centers for a few wedDip points. I get it if there is a solo opportunity... but in a drawn game?!? I'd be more likely to give an ally a supply center or two in a draw if our supply centers were materially imbalanced.

willie23
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:17 pm

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#9 Post by willie23 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:37 pm

I don't enjoy stabbing people. My first(and only) solo came after a brilliant stab of Germany. Immediately afterward I looked in the mirror and cringed.

As a very good player of diplomacy once told me, I'll never be more than a middling player if I don't stab when the time is right. I'm fine with that.

I don't get upset however when a good stab is executed on my back. It's all part of the game. I usually know when a stab is coming though so it's never much of a problem.

orathaic
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Karma: 57

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#10 Post by orathaic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 pm

Not anything goes. Also, you agree by entering a game to play and be played. I have no difficulty looking myself in the mirror, play the best I can.

Now if that means chainsaw diplomacy, or playing someone's ego, so be it. More fool them, if that means the see a stab for the perfect timing it was aimed at, so be it... If that means getting stabbed at precisely the wrong moment, we'll thems the breaks... If this doesn't sound like fun to you, then you're on the wrong forums.

Lord Bolton
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#11 Post by Lord Bolton » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:08 am

There is one rule of thumb I follow for stabs. Whoever I stab, under no circumstances do I let up until they are gone. Eliminates any nasty revenge scenarios later (obviously doesn't apply if I solo before they die). I may lie again and again as I continue to press the attack, but they are marked for death.

Mercy
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:03 pm
Karma: 83

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#12 Post by Mercy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:45 pm

As I see it, when entering a Diplomacy game, one signs an invisible contract stating that they now enter the realm of lies and deceit in which anything goes.

That being said, there are things that I, for ethical reasons, would not do in a game of Diplomacy, and these occur when the border between the game and outside the game begins to blur. For example (and this is a truly made up example), if one has quite personal talks with an ally and one starts to suspect that the ally in question is quite lonely IRL, one might be tempted to, let's say, claim that you live close to him/her and suggest to meetup after the game is over, all to make this person more likely to follow your suggestion if you suggest a 2-way draw, while in reality you plan to stab him for a solo and do not live close to him/her at all. But I would not do so.

In general I don't like when personal stuff mixes with a game like this, which is why I prefer to play anonymous games only.
Lord Bolton wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:08 am
There is one rule of thumb I follow for stabs. Whoever I stab, under no circumstances do I let up until they are gone. Eliminates any nasty revenge scenarios later (obviously doesn't apply if I solo before they die). I may lie again and again as I continue to press the attack, but they are marked for death.
So you are one of those people. I have met players like this on occasion and honestly, I find them very annoying and not strategically sound. After they stab me, I am always forced to spend time and energy to eliminate them while they could have been useful otherwise.

Claesar
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:34 am
Karma: 277

Re: Diplomacy Etiquette – the Stab!!!

#13 Post by Claesar » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:55 pm

Yup, I love to let people live. If they can convince me they'll be more useful alive than dead, game on.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests