World Cup

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Octavious
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Re: World Cup

#141 Post by Octavious » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:45 pm

Anyone can win a final. France are favourites, but it's not a sure thing by any stretch.

As for the bronze, it has never really been valued in England. We will see it as another pointless game against Belgium. If Belgium care, they will get it.

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Re: World Cup

#142 Post by TrPrado » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:50 pm

Now the England fans may suffer as I have suffered. Come on Croatia!

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Re: World Cup

#143 Post by curupira » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:13 pm

That is it. Croatia x France.
In my opinion, the two best teams in this World Cup.

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Re: World Cup

#144 Post by tobieee911 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:33 pm

I really hope Croatia will win the World Cup.

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Re: World Cup

#145 Post by ghug » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:19 pm

Get rekt, imperialist swine!
1

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Re: World Cup

#146 Post by brainbomb » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:57 am

Croatia was pretty weak vs russia tho
.

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Re: World Cup

#147 Post by RoganJosh » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:26 pm

Octavious wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:45 pm
As for the bronze, it has never really been valued in England.
I think this is one of England's problems.

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Re: World Cup

#148 Post by Deeply_Dippy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:34 pm

Saturday's game is a dead rubber - just like last week's Group match.

Expect England to put out a fully changed 11. If Belgium want to play their full strength side then let them.

Sunday's final could honestly go either way - and should be all the more interesting for it. I think that France are slight favourites and are possibly the more deserving winners overall. However, I would love to see Croatia win it - if only to upset the French.

Entente cordiale? My arse!

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Re: World Cup

#149 Post by Octavious » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:02 pm

RoganJosh wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:26 pm
Octavious wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:45 pm
As for the bronze, it has never really been valued in England.
I think this is one of England's problems.
Why? I think it's one of the World Cup's problems that this game exists. They should take a leaf out of boxing's book.

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Re: World Cup

#150 Post by RoganJosh » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:24 pm

Sounds like you changed your statement from "England doesn't value bronze" to "no-one should value bronze."

Either way, to be more precise, it always seems like gold is the only thing that counts for England. I think that's counter-productive.

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Re: World Cup

#151 Post by Octavious » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:36 pm

I didn't change my statement. I made two statements and stand by both of them. You have interpreted them, quite wrongly as it happens, as evidence of a victory or bust mentality. Not at all. What counts above all is the way you play the game. Obviously a desire to win is part of that, but not all. No, I am simply against the concept of a third place play-off. Who cares? Nobody remembers who wins the match. Getting to the semi finals is an achievement worthy of celebration. Why not leave it at that?

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Re: World Cup

#152 Post by TrPrado » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:35 am

“England doesn’t value bronze” is an observational statement whereas “no one should value bronze” is a normative statement. Basically he wants to make it clear he’s from England.

EDIT: As a true American, I also don’t value consolation rounds. As a wise man once said “If you’re not first, you’re last.”

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Re: World Cup

#153 Post by Octavious » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:59 am

TrPrado wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:35 am
EDIT: As a true American, I also don’t value consolation rounds. As a wise man once said “If you’re not first, you’re last.”
Do you view it as a consolation? At best I see it as an irritation, and at worst an insult to both sides.

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Re: World Cup

#154 Post by damo666 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:57 pm

Nobody cares about 3rd/4th play off.

BismarckAlive
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Re: World Cup

#155 Post by BismarckAlive » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:56 pm

Good teams do care about the 3rd/4th playoff. Those players know the value to their nations (and for their own commercial values) of strong performances in these FIFA rated games. To come 3rd instead of 4th means a lot in terms of future friendlies / warmup games, not to mention the money coming from FIFA which will help the national competition. Hence Brazil's strong performance to come 3rd last time around.

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Re: World Cup

#156 Post by Octavious » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:30 pm

BismarckAlive wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:56 pm
Good teams do care about the 3rd/4th playoff. Those players know the value to their nations (and for their own commercial values) of strong performances in these FIFA rated games. To come 3rd instead of 4th means a lot in terms of future friendlies / warmup games, not to mention the money coming from FIFA which will help the national competition. Hence Brazil's strong performance to come 3rd last time around.
In what sense does it matter for friendlies? Top tier teams can pretty much pick and choose whatever friendlies they want. Germany had an awful tournament, but they can still get whatever warm up game takes their fancy. Belgium have earned the same right based on a strong tournament and having a team full of household names. Do you seriously think forth instead of third will make any odds?

I suppose getting thrashed 3-0 by the Netherlands is strong relative to being humiliated 7-1 by Germany :razz:

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Re: World Cup

#157 Post by BismarckAlive » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:59 pm

Octavius,
Netherlands punctuated what was clear from the Germany debacle - Brazil was at sixes and sevens in defence. But as you pointed out, a strong Netherlands side (arguably a better Final opponent to Germany than Argentina) only put 3 past them, and a couple of the goals were later on counterattack.

Nevertheless, the more important aspect is the FIFA money - 3rd gets more than 4th. And it is substantial money for any FA.

The friendlies comment I really meant for lower tier countries that do get through into the semis, like past Turkey / South Korea teams. They did indeed enjoy better friendlies in the following cycles than otherwise by making it into the semis.

You are right in that neither England nor Belgium will get any different potential friendly partners from the result, but they will still look at (1) FIFA money and (2) FIFA ranking points (good for next cycle group formation) as incentives to win the 3rd / 4th playoff. Also, both countries enjoyed huge support through the tournament, so they will feel compelled to perform well in their final game.

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Re: World Cup

#158 Post by Octavious » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:25 pm

Time will tell, I guess. How much extra money does a team get for third over forth?

Things change this year, of course. International friendlies are largely being killed off for the sake of that European League nonsense. I dare say it'll make a huge impact on rankings too.

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Re: World Cup

#159 Post by RoganJosh » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:51 pm

Yeah, my mistake was that I though "England doesn't value bronze" was a statement about England or English fans in general.

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Re: World Cup

#160 Post by RoganJosh » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:00 pm

Oh - and I thought you were saying that English fans doesn't care about this bronze medal game, despite England playing in it. But maybe you were talking about bronze medal games in general.

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