Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

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cdngooner
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Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#1 Post by cdngooner » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:31 pm

We are in Autumn 1904 Build phase. Russia has one unit (on Livonia) and no supply centres. It HAS to eliminate that unit. But the game is still waiting for Russia to formally enter the order to eliminate. But Russia has no interest in coming back to the game because he has been eliminated.

Is it possible in the code to have the game AUTOMATICALLY make moves where there is no choice?
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Claesar
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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#2 Post by Claesar » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:57 pm

No, this is not possible/easy due to the way our game engine works. The code that provides the options does not communicate in that way with the code that executes moves. I might be explaining this very incorrectly, as I'm not a developer.

I'll have a look at your game and see what I can do to speed it up.
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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#3 Post by Claesar » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:58 pm

I checked your game and as you have noticed, Russia has gracefully entered their disband and pressed Ready.

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#4 Post by cdngooner » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:57 pm

Thanks for the quick reply.

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#5 Post by neha31 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:25 pm

This discussion really helped.

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#6 Post by qrzy » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:28 am

I think It would be a very bad feature. For example if this order happens instantly, the player who does not have choice cannot be a member of a draw when the others vote it. Probably it does not matter in most of DSS games, but in a SoS game the elminated player does not get points, but will not be defeated, and can be a part of a draw as a sign of sportmanship.
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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#7 Post by Octavious » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:54 am

qrzy wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:28 am
I think It would be a very bad feature. For example if this order happens instantly, the player who does not have choice cannot be a member of a draw when the others vote it. Probably it does not matter in most of DSS games, but in a SoS game the elminated player does not get points, but will not be defeated, and can be a part of a draw as a sign of sportmanship.
I'm unsure whether charity should be an aspect of the game that should be encouraged. The true sportsman makes the kill swift to minimise the pain, and offers his defeated foe a nod of respect. Prancing about like a Roman Emperor at the circus choosing whether his lessors deserve to live or die is just self-aggrandizing twaddle.
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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#8 Post by bartogian » Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:57 am

qrzy's post doesn't make sense to me. We are talking about the builds phase where a player has already been eliminated, so they cannot participate in any draw.

I was just caught out by this today and received a warning in a live game that I missed my adjustment after elimination. Sorry to the players involved for delaying their game without realising it.
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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#9 Post by qrzy » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:48 am

bartogian wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:57 am
qrzy's post doesn't make sense to me. We are talking about the builds phase where a player has already been eliminated, so they cannot participate in any draw.

I was just caught out by this today and received a warning in a live game that I missed my adjustment after elimination. Sorry to the players involved for delaying their game without realising it.
If the players vote draw in a build phase, the eliminated player will be the part of it.

Check this game:

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel

It is an almost different situation, but if the players want a 4 way draw, and an another player who forgot to enter the orders, an elminiated player can be the part of a draw instead of the player went to CD.
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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#10 Post by qrzy » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:53 am

So, while somebody has at least one unit or center, he can be part of a draw.

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#11 Post by bartogian » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:46 am

That is one weird edge case. I had no idea that webdiplomacy didn't update the supply centre chart after adjudicating the fall retreats phase. I would call it a bug.

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#12 Post by qrzy » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:11 pm

bartogian wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:46 am
That is one weird edge case. I had no idea that webdiplomacy didn't update the supply centre chart after adjudicating the fall retreats phase. I would call it a bug.
It was in spring. If tunis is a home center, and the unit move out from there in autumn, Italy could build something. But you must know that.

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#13 Post by Claesar » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:11 pm

bartogian wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:46 am
That is one weird edge case. I had no idea that webdiplomacy didn't update the supply centre chart after adjudicating the fall retreats phase. I would call it a bug.
Except that it does and there's no bug.

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#14 Post by Squigs44 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:30 pm

Actually you could interpret the rule book in such a way that supply centers are not supposed to be updated until after retreats. I would say that according to the rulebook, you shouldn't have a draw during retreats since no discussion is supposed to take place, but being an online format, retreats aren't really instantaneous like in a f2f game.

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#15 Post by bartogian » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:38 pm

@Squigs44, of course supply centres are not supposed to be updated until after retreats. In the game that qrzy linked to, the fall retreats have been adjudicated and the supply centre charts have not been updated to account for Austria's capture of TUN.

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#16 Post by Squigs44 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:13 am

bartogian wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:38 pm
@Squigs44, of course supply centres are not supposed to be updated until after retreats. In the game that qrzy linked to, the fall retreats have been adjudicated and the supply centre charts have not been updated to account for Austria's capture of TUN.
Oh. Fall retreats have actually not happened here, nor have fall movements happened. Italy disbanded their unit in the Spring retreats, which have been adjudicated correctly.
The confusing thing here (and what might be considered a bug) is that if you go to archived orders it repeats Springs orders as orders for Fall, even though Fall never actually happened. The way we handle ending a game gets kinda weird for... reasons

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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#17 Post by A_Tin_Can » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:35 am

The rules are actually quite clear:
However,
players can end the game by agreement before a winner is determined. In this case, all
players who still have pieces on the game board share equally in a draw.

https://media.wizards.com/2015/download ... _rules.pdf
Having pieces on the board is what matters. So, technically agreeing to a draw before removals have happened would still include player(s) with 0 supply centres in the draw.

(although if we're being strict about the rulebook, you're not allowed to communicate during retreats or builds, so you could only agree to end the game during a Diplomacy phase)

I can't remember what webdip actually does, but I do remember that the phase change logic is a bit complex because of the reason Squigs mentioned:
The way we handle ending a game gets kinda weird for... reasons
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Re: Auto Move Where Player Has No Choice

#18 Post by bartogian » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:32 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:13 am
The confusing thing here (and what might be considered a bug) is that if you go to archived orders it repeats Springs orders as orders for Fall, even though Fall never actually happened. The way we handle ending a game gets kinda weird for... reasons
Yes this was really confusing to me. I looked at the archived orders to check that the game had adjudicated F1908 retreats and had no idea that it was a repeat of the spring moves. Since the game was still in the F1908 movement phase, in which case of course Italy isn't eliminated yet.

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