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NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:19 am
by ssorenn
Why not make a rule that allows majority to cancel a game based on early NMRs. Before the end of 02. Allowing one person to hold a game hostage because they got an advantage is wrong, and boarders on cheating. You mods supposedly look for cheaters the most according JMO
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:39 am
by Durga
Interesting suggestion
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:28 am
by bo_sox48
My preference would be to automatically cancel any game with multiple NMRs prior to 1903 but I'd be cool with this too.
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:47 am
by ssorenn
bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:28 am
My preference would be to automatically cancel any game with multiple NMRs prior to 1903 but I'd be cool with this too.
Not sure i asked for Bo’s preference.
This could be about a single NMR that throws the whole game. ... but majority should rule before 02
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:17 am
by Claesar
I think you could get much further in life if you improved your attitude
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:54 pm
by foodcoats
I'm not a software developer, but majority-rule cancellation voting post-NMR sounds complicated - you'd have to activate and deactivate a secondary set of voting rules based on the game state. There's also theoretical scenarios where a powerful two-country alliance could be cancelled out of a game when one of the allies misses a move (for example, a Juggernaut being fought by England, France and Germany, and Turkey forgets to submit a retreat, say), and their enemies effectively meta-game to avoid defeat by two-way draw.
With auto-cancelling, you'd have to evaluate and decide what constitutes the correct level of impact to auto-cancel: how many NMRs, builds/retreats or just moves, in what time frame, in what sequence, by the same country or different countries or adjacent countries only, etc. You'd also have to consider that friends playing in a casual, private game may not care and may get upset if their game is cancelled when they don't perceive NMRs as a problem.
Not to mention, mid- and late-game NMRs/CDs are just as much of an issue.
What if, instead, any NMR, at any point in the game, automatically:
- extended the phase a complete length
- sent a system-generated email and direct message to the player's email address and WebDip inbox
- flagged the player with the "Missed the last phase" tag
- added an NMR count to the player's profile to impact their RR
- CD'd the player if they missed the "bonus phase" added by their original NMR and then added another complete phase length to provide an opportunity for a new player to join
This gives the NMR player a reminder, other players a chance to reach out to the mods for a pause/replace, and the community the chance to step in. Even if a replacement isn't found, the system boots the AFK player after a single set of orders, which is much less impactful than if a player misses a complete turn.
This doesn't directly solve the problem of NMR-induced imbalance, but in combination with RR and the points system itself, it would be another tool to exclude unreliable players.
(...and may be much more complicated than the option I called complicated at the beginning!)
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:10 pm
by ssorenn
Claesar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:17 am
I think you could get much further in life if you improved your attitude
I am much further than all of you. Haha
Know your audience.
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:14 pm
by ssorenn
foodcoats wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:54 pm
I'm not a software developer, but majority-rule cancellation voting post-NMR sounds complicated - you'd have to activate and deactivate a secondary set of voting rules based on the game state. There's also theoretical scenarios where a powerful two-country alliance could be cancelled out of a game when one of the allies misses a move (for example, a Juggernaut being fought by England, France and Germany, and Turkey forgets to submit a retreat, say), and their enemies effectively meta-game to avoid defeat by two-way draw.
With auto-cancelling, you'd have to evaluate and decide what constitutes the correct level of impact to auto-cancel: how many NMRs, builds/retreats or just moves, in what time frame, in what sequence, by the same country or different countries or adjacent countries only, etc. You'd also have to consider that friends playing in a casual, private game may not care and may get upset if their game is cancelled when they don't perceive NMRs as a problem.
Not to mention, mid- and late-game NMRs/CDs are just as much of an issue.
What if, instead, any NMR, at any point in the game, automatically:
- extended the phase a complete length
- sent a system-generated email and direct message to the player's email address and WebDip inbox
- flagged the player with the "Missed the last phase" tag
- added an NMR count to the player's profile to impact their RR
- CD'd the player if they missed the "bonus phase" added by their original NMR and then added another complete phase length to provide an opportunity for a new player to join
This gives the NMR player a reminder, other players a chance to reach out to the mods for a pause/replace, and the community the chance to step in. Even if a replacement isn't found, the system boots the AFK player after a single set of orders, which is much less impactful than if a player misses a complete turn.
This doesn't directly solve the problem of NMR-induced imbalance, but in combination with RR and the points system itself, it would be another tool to exclude unreliable players.
(...and may be much more complicated than the option I called complicated at the beginning!)
This doesn’t need to be a restructuring of the code. Simply notify the mods. Make them do some work
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:25 pm
by Wusti
ssorenn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:10 pm
Claesar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:17 am
I think you could get much further in life if you improved your attitude
I am much further than all of you. Haha
Know your audience.
That's really very presumptuous of you.
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:53 pm
by Szpoti
I've always treated NMRs as an integral part of the game which has been 'translated' from a board game into an online social event. Early NMRs are like playing football against the wind - it's unfair, but you're not going to leave the pitch, and go back to the changing room.
I also always imagined that an NMR can be likened to a communication breakdown, sabotage, president/king/commander-in-chief assassination and the internal chaos caused by it.
As mentioned by foodcoats earlier, an NMR in a later phase of the game may be just as damaging. Anything 'automatic' would lead to misuse.
We've got 83k finished games to our record here - why make changes now? It's not a rhetorical question, maybe there's something I've overlooked.
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:04 pm
by ssorenn
Wusti wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:25 pm
ssorenn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:10 pm
Claesar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:17 am
I think you could get much further in life if you improved your attitude
I am much further than all of you. Haha
Know your audience.
That's really very presumptuous of you.
I’d bet on it. But confidence is what it is
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:24 pm
by RoganJosh
Did I get this right? I join a game. I tell everyone what opening moves I want them to do. If they don't abide, then I refuse to send in A01 orders, and the game is cancelled?
Or was it multiple NMRs? So I have to find a second person who's also unhappy with the opening moves, and together we can force cancel the game?
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:32 pm
by jmo1121109
ssorenn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:10 pm
Claesar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:17 am
I think you could get much further in life if you improved your attitude
I am much further than all of you. Haha
Know your audience.
If getting where you are required berating everyone and being an unpleasant jackass to people then I’m not interested. As for your implication that the mods currently do not do work, take your own advice and don’t speak about things you don’t understand.
I’ll take your idea under consideration, resolved.
Re: NMRs [RESOLVED]
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:42 pm
by Durga
Why is this marked resolved? I feel like there's plenty to discuss. Rogan has a good point. Might be too easy to abuse this
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:10 pm
by ziran
ssorenn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:04 pm
Wusti wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:25 pm
ssorenn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:10 pm
I am much further than all of you. Haha
Know your audience.
That's really very presumptuous of you.
I’d bet on it. But confidence is what it is
i'm confident that you're rude.
an auto cancel i think would only be acceptable if someone nmr'd in spring 01. games don't start if they aren't full; i don't see why they should continue. but anytime after that and someone could abuse it.
Re: NMRs [RESOLVED]
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:25 pm
by ssorenn
I love that people care about this shit. You all are so funny
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:35 pm
by ssorenn
jmo1121109 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:32 pm
ssorenn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:10 pm
Claesar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:17 am
I think you could get much further in life if you improved your attitude
I am much further than all of you. Haha
Know your audience.
If getting where you are required berating everyone and being an unpleasant jackass to people then I’m not interested. As for your implication that the mods currently do not do work, take your own advice and don’t speak about things you don’t understand.
I’ll take your idea under consideration, resolved.
Who asked you anything. JMO. Piss off. I offer a solution to a problem that’s been a disaster since ive been here. I did not ask what others thought was the solution. I could care less. Either take the advice or move on. To think i May care what anyone here thinks is bonkers. You are all little dots on my screen. Meaningless to my life. I’m only interested in killing you on the battlefield, and then forgetting that you exist
Re: NMRs
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:37 pm
by bo_sox48
This is not resolved, so I’m unmarking it.
Re: NMRs [RESOLVED]
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:47 pm
by Foxcastle
ssorenn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:25 pm
I love that people care about this shit. You all are so funny
Didn't you start this thread?
Re: NMRs [RESOLVED]
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:09 pm
by ssorenn
Foxcastle wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:47 pm
ssorenn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:25 pm
I love that people care about this shit. You all are so funny
Didn't you start this thread?
about a solution to NMRs