iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

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Kingdroid
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iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#1 Post by Kingdroid » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:33 pm

so, when you take over a game do you not get an excused turn? I'm p sure I just ate a CD for missing 1 phase all game bc of this in a game i took over.
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BobMcBob
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Re: Inheriting missed turns

#2 Post by BobMcBob » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:46 pm

No, you don't get another excused missed turn, to stop the game from being continually delayed by repeated NMRs from the same country (it happens). There are some annoying problems with the system, but that's the way it is at the moment.
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Kingdroid
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#3 Post by Kingdroid » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:24 pm

Unfortunate. I had a busy weekend and missed a phase and have eaten a CD for it :/ Is there a way it can be fixed to "earn" back the missed turn. For example, I took over this game in the very first phase , and finally "CD'd" about 3 years later. this seems like a somewhat reasonable amount of time to be given the beenefit of the doubt. Idk, i jsut hate seeing my RR get tanked so hard from 1 missed turn.

gimix
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#4 Post by gimix » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:23 pm

Same here. My current record is 1 missed phase out of 348: it's 0.287% so my real RR is 100%, or at the very least 99%, while i'm at 88% :(( because of a 6% recent delay penalty (i suppose it will go away soon) and a 5% *yearly* delay penalty (i'm afraid it will be lasting longer?).
I can see the logic behind these penalties, and i heartily agree with that since i know well how frustrating it is to be waiting for players who won't set their orders; but i think the algorithm should be more like the "rating value - standard deviation" approach of TrueSkill or Glicko - the penalty would possibly be even harder, but the recovery would be much quicker
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BunnyGo
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#5 Post by BunnyGo » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:15 am

And why does my record not show all the "CD taken over" that I've done?

diplomat61
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#6 Post by diplomat61 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:54 am

I feel we should get some credit for taking over a CD, particularly an unwinnable position just to keep the game moving.
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Chaqa
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#7 Post by Chaqa » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:20 pm

I think that the excused turns should reset when you takeover a country, personally.
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Claesar
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#8 Post by Claesar » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:03 pm

Kingdroid wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:33 pm
so, when you take over a game do you not get an excused turn? I'm p sure I just ate a CD for missing 1 phase all game bc of this in a game i took over.
Working as intended. Not a bug.
Kingdroid wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:24 pm
... and finally "CD'd" about 3 years later. this seems like a somewhat reasonable amount of time to be given the beenefit of the doubt.
...
You managed to submit 6 order sets? I personally don't feel that's a reasonable amount of time.
That said, it's an interesting suggestion to be able to earn back an excused turn (as a replacement player) after a certain amount of time. Perhaps that's something we'll think about for the future, though I imagine it's hard to code.
Chaqa wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:20 pm
I think that the excused turns should reset when you takeover a country, personally.
We disagree. While that would indeed be more fair to the player taking over a CD, it would cause even more grief to the other players who already have been delayed.
Kingdroid wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:33 pm
so, when you take over a game do you not get an excused turn? I'm p sure I just ate a CD for missing 1 phase all game bc of this in a game i took over.
That's correct; when you take over a CD position you effectively join a game with 0 excused turns.
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Kingdroid
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#9 Post by Kingdroid » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:08 pm

tbf, 6 is not reasonable, but there were so many other missed turns during that time that it took like 2 weeks, so to me, it feels like a lot (and I would've gotten a lot more in that time had that not happened)

but, i do think it's unreasonable to take over a game and eat a CD after 1 missed turn lol. I mean, that happens for literally nobody else, and, frankly, it makes taking over games risky and disincentives it, which is pretty much the exact opposite of what you want.

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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#10 Post by Chaqa » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:10 pm

Claesar wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:03 pm
Kingdroid wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:33 pm
so, when you take over a game do you not get an excused turn? I'm p sure I just ate a CD for missing 1 phase all game bc of this in a game i took over.
Working as intended. Not a bug.
Kingdroid wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:24 pm
... and finally "CD'd" about 3 years later. this seems like a somewhat reasonable amount of time to be given the beenefit of the doubt.
...
You managed to submit 6 order sets? I personally don't feel that's a reasonable amount of time.
That said, it's an interesting suggestion to be able to earn back an excused turn (as a replacement player) after a certain amount of time. Perhaps that's something we'll think about for the future, though I imagine it's hard to code.
Chaqa wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:20 pm
I think that the excused turns should reset when you takeover a country, personally.
We disagree. While that would indeed be more fair to the player taking over a CD, it would cause even more grief to the other players who already have been delayed.
Kingdroid wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:33 pm
so, when you take over a game do you not get an excused turn? I'm p sure I just ate a CD for missing 1 phase all game bc of this in a game i took over.
That's correct; when you take over a CD position you effectively join a game with 0 excused turns.
Players who take over positions are doing a favor to the game and to the other players. Rewarding them with an excused turn is reasonable to me. What's the incentive, otherwise?
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bo_sox48
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#11 Post by bo_sox48 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:42 pm

Nothing, other than the fact that they're free and often fantastic positions that you can ride to an easy draw/solo.

Matticus13
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#12 Post by Matticus13 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:27 pm

If you might CD, don't take it maybe? No one is forcing you to take the game over.

Kingdroid
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#13 Post by Kingdroid » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:03 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:42 pm
Nothing, other than the fact that they're free and often fantastic positions that you can ride to an easy draw/solo.
"often" fantastic for a free solo? lmao. dont joke. free, yes. but I think players taking over abandoned positions should be afforded the same considerations as thep layer who abandoned it was.
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Kingdroid
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#14 Post by Kingdroid » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:05 pm

Matticus13 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:27 pm
If you might CD, don't take it maybe? No one is forcing you to take the game over.
i didn't think I would, but stuff comes up when a game ends up taking forever (due to it being a world diplo game where nearly every country missed a turn), so when i took it over, My schedule was super clear, about a few weeks later and only 6 phases had processed, something came up, and i missed a turn,which is exactly what the "excused missed turn" system is designed for.

i dont take up games i might legit cd, but i cant discount missing a turn once during a month lmao.

I see you've never started a game and CD'd, eh, Matticus?

diplomat61
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#15 Post by diplomat61 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:25 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:42 pm
Nothing, other than the fact that they're free and often fantastic positions that you can ride to an easy draw/solo.
Often? No way! Most abandonments that I see are positions that are destined to lose.

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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#16 Post by jmo1121109 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:58 pm

I do believe I covered this several times in the roll out of this feature, but here we go again.

There is a position in a game which started with 4 excused missed turns. The first year someone delays the game all 4 times (4 days). Now a new player to the site jumps in the game, decides they hate it and delay it 1 day. Now another new player jumps in, decides they aren't gonna play it, and delay it another day, now your third replacement is engaged and stays. The game has been delayed 6 days. As opposed to the 12 days this would have taken under the proposed change of excused turns resetting. Additionally if someone joins a game, CD's, takes it back over, under this proposed system they'd be getting back all their excused missed turns. Letting them hold games hostage for days.

The goal of excused missed turns is to prevent NMR's without overly delaying games. Which is why we limited the delay time to 24 hours max (though this does have a bug in some cases) and don't allow resetting of NMR's. I believe that tobi at vDip will be looking at a solution that might let people earn excused missed turns back when taking over a position but it definitely wouldn't be within 3 years. More like 5 or 10.
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Kingdroid
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#17 Post by Kingdroid » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:27 am

tbf, as i said, the 3 years took way longer than 3 years would normally take, due to the nature of a world diplomacy game having a lot more ppl to delay the game length. i sure was in that game for way longer than you would be in any normal game, considering the phase length

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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#18 Post by Kingdroid » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:29 am

also feel it's a bit unreasonable to eat a CD over 1 missed phase, regardless, but whatever. lesson learned, i will no longer be taking over abandoned positions. Not worth risking my RR if something were to arise irl. I have a pretty good track record of not missing turns, so it's quite disappointing that if i miss a phase in a taken over position it can wreck it, when I can just play fresh games and be given much more leeway

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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#19 Post by Chaqa » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:26 pm

I'm not saying you'd get a full suite of new excused turns, that's a slippery slope you're presenting, jmo. Giving a takeover 1 (even if it needs to be earned) isn't extreme.
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Matticus13
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Re: iNHERITING MISSED TURNS

#20 Post by Matticus13 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:37 pm

Kingdroid wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:05 pm
Matticus13 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:27 pm
If you might CD, don't take it maybe? No one is forcing you to take the game over.
i didn't think I would, but stuff comes up when a game ends up taking forever (due to it being a world diplo game where nearly every country missed a turn), so when i took it over, My schedule was super clear, about a few weeks later and only 6 phases had processed, something came up, and i missed a turn,which is exactly what the "excused missed turn" system is designed for.

i dont take up games i might legit cd, but i cant discount missing a turn once during a month lmao.

I see you've never started a game and CD'd, eh, Matticus?
A couple years ago when I left the site for over a year. I did try and find a replacement. I'm not excusing my CD. I'm saying I don't think you have a legitimate gripe.

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