Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

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Expand view Topic review: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by ND » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:55 pm

I am watching Mr. President Trump's rally in Greenville right now. He is a great man and the best President in US history apart from George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. #MAGA

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Tom Bombadil » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:03 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:46 pm
 Ok, this is one thing I don't understand about the American political debate. I am from a military family and took the Queen's shilling in the TA for a few years. Now one of the major principles of the military is that service should be totally voluntary except in cases of dire need. I don't see anything wrong in people not wanting to join their military. I see a huge amount of wrong about people trying to shame those who avoided the tyranny of conscription. Seriously, what the hell?
Agreed

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Octavious » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:46 pm

Ok, this is one thing I don't understand about the American political debate. I am from a military family and took the Queen's shilling in the TA for a few years. Now one of the major principles of the military is that service should be totally voluntary except in cases of dire need. I don't see anything wrong in people not wanting to join their military. I see a huge amount of wrong about people trying to shame those who avoided the tyranny of conscription. Seriously, what the hell?

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Randomizer » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:19 pm

By Trump's statement, he should go back to Germany with his Jewish daughter and son-in-law and fix their problems with anti-Semitism, immigration of colored skin people from Arab countries and Africa, and other things that he isn't doing here before working on US problems. After all just because he is descended from Western Europeans doesn't give him a pass.

Of course his grandfather tried to return to Germany after he made his fortune running a brothel in Alaska and was told no for being avoiding mandatory military service. I guess we know where Daffy Donald acquired his morality of avoiding joining the military (fake bone spur) and towards women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... c146e76f70

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Tom Bombadil » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:17 pm

Fine. By white I mean Western European.

What I’m getting is that in my community you see Middle Eastern kids, born in the US getting bullied all day long by Western European kids also born the in the US, getting told to go back to their country.

Yes, technically middle eastern people are white, but they get treated differently. So rather than debate the term white, I think the focus should be on how the presidents language empowers people to say things like “go back to the country you came from” to people who do not look American (I would say white, but I guess I’ll start saying “of Western European ancestry”)

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Octavious » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:02 pm

Hispanics tend to be white, though. You get a fair few blacks and indians, but by and large they're white. Either that or my family is remarkably mixed race, which is would be rather fun if true.

Tlaib is from Palestinian stock, isn't she? They're pretty white, and certainly a damn sight nearer the Caucasus than I am. Similar I guess to Boris Johnson (the next UK PM unless something weird happens, whose dad was the son of Osman Kemal, who changed his name to Johnson to fit in after the family fled the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Now Boris Johnson is definitely white, but so I would argue is his dad, and so was Osman Kemal for that matter.

I reckon you Yanks over think these things.

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by flash2015 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:54 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:27 am
Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:07 pm
 Sure, he suggests they come back. That suddenly makes it not deplorable?
It makes it different to what is being reported, and when such a difference exists it makes it easy for Trump supporters to say "that's not what he said" and move on, rather than addressing the problems with what was actually said.
I think you are trying to split hairs here. I am really not seeing the big difference.
Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:07 pm
 Nobody would ever tell me to go "back to my country" because they wouldn't know what country I came from. My country is the United States because I am white
Now that is interesting. Are you sure it's true? I ask as a lot of anti-immigrant feeling in the UK is directed at Eastern Europeans, who are about as white as it is possible to get. How you sound tends to be a bigger factor than how you look. Speaking of colour, aren't two of the squad white anyway?
As someone that has lived here for the past 20 years, I would absolutely agree with Tom here. The fault lines are different here than in the UK.

Three of the four were born in the USA and have US accents so they can in no way be thought of as immigrants. How can Trump be questioning their allegiances because of their views? Does he really want this "marketplace of ideas" or is the marketplace reserved only for ideas he agrees with (I find a lot of the "free speech" complaints filled with hypocrisy)? His comments can't much get more racist than this and we have hit a new low with the number of people in the US that have brushed aside his comments. It should be possible to not like the politics of "the squad" AND find Trump's tweets beneath the office he supposedly holds. Unfortunately, politics in the US is so tribal at the moment that this does not seem possible.

Who are you saying is white here? AOC? - she would be called Hispanic, not white. Tlaib? - I don't know what you would call her, but most people would generally not refer to her as white.

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Octavious » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:27 am

Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:07 pm
 Sure, he suggests they come back. That suddenly makes it not deplorable?
It makes it different to what is being reported, and when such a difference exists it makes it easy for Trump supporters to say "that's not what he said" and move on, rather than addressing the problems with what was actually said.
Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:07 pm
 Nobody would ever tell me to go "back to my country" because they wouldn't know what country I came from. My country is the United States because I am white
Now that is interesting. Are you sure it's true? I ask as a lot of anti-immigrant feeling in the UK is directed at Eastern Europeans, who are about as white as it is possible to get. How you sound tends to be a bigger factor than how you look. Speaking of colour, aren't two of the squad white anyway?

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Randomizer » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:41 am

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/16/politics ... index.html

Trump is playing to his political base and regaining his supporters among the White Supremacists who want to make the country in their image.

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Tom Bombadil » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:09 pm

I'm not one who gets real caught up in the Trump twitter hysteria, but I genuinely believe this is really really dangerous rhetoric.

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Tom Bombadil » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:07 pm

"So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!"

Sure, he suggests they come back. That suddenly makes it not deplorable?

This is clearly implying that non-white Americans are less American than white Americans. Nobody would ever tell me to go "back to my country" because they wouldn't know what country I came from. My country is the United States because I am white. His statement is dangerous rhetoric that implies they will always from another country instead of being American. Its incredibly nationalistic. He tells people of color to go to countries they aren't even from!

I understand what you are saying about the far-right rhetoric about immigrants, and this is somewhat different. But the undertones are that for some reason people of color in the United States are from other countries, and white people in the United States are from the United States. We could have been born in the same hospital.

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Octavious » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:51 pm

Tom Bombadil wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:38 pm
 The counties they came from is the United States. The first way you present is the only way to interpret it Octavious
Not at all, because the go back where you came from cries of the far right where never followed by "and then come back". It is very much not the same.

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Tom Bombadil » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:38 pm

The counties they came from is the United States. The first way you present is the only way to interpret it Octavious

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Tom Bombadil » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:36 pm

I disagree. I find it very troublesome when you tell United States citizens of color to go back to where you came from, when in fact they came from the United States.

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Octavious » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:33 pm

flash2015 wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:14 pm
 How were they interpreted incorrectly?
In the British media they were reported as Trump saying "go back where you came from", which has traditionally been a cry uttered by the far right (National Front thugs, the EDL etc) against immigrants, people who resemble immigrants, and people who sound like immigrants. Essentially the message being that they're not welcome and should get out.

Trump's comments is that the targeted politicians should fix the problems of the countries they came from before lecturing on how to fix the US. There are clearly a great many things wrong with this statement, but it is equally clear that it is not the "go back where you came from" type of statement that is being portrayed.

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Stressedlines » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:48 pm

I'm also a little lost but so is the world. Everyone trying to out victim the other

They said racist but I didnt see mention of race anywhere in the comments

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by flash2015 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:14 pm

Octavious wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:51 pm
 I've been a little confused by the latest controversy. I read his comments on the matter and he didn't say what he has been reported to have said. To be clear, what he did say was particularly off colour even for Trump, and it would be impossible for someone like him to be unaware that it could be interpreted as racist. Which makes it weird that most media outlets are miss reporting it.
How were they interpreted incorrectly?

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by Octavious » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:51 pm

I've been a little confused by the latest controversy. I read his comments on the matter and he didn't say what he has been reported to have said. To be clear, what he did say was particularly off colour even for Trump, and it would be impossible for someone like him to be unaware that it could be interpreted as racist. Which makes it weird that most media outlets are miss reporting it.

Re: Trumptoad announces the start of his re~election campaign

by MajorMitchell » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:40 am

Something perhaps more disturbing than Trumptoad's racist & sexist attack on four very capable, hardworking Democrat lady Members of Congress elected by their constituents & his lack of respect for the democratic process is that there will be people who support his latest outrageous slurs.

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