Government Shutdown

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Expand view Topic review: Government Shutdown

Re: Government Shutdown

by Octavious » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:01 am

There you go. A small, modern, ugly church. From what I've read it doesn't seem likely that it will even have to be knocked down.

Re: Government Shutdown

by Randomizer » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:16 am

Octavious wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:11 pm
Randomizer wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 pm
Technically the "Wall funds" go only to upgrade and repair existing walls and only a little goes to 40 miles of new walls.

Trump is already facing a major lawsuit to block construction in the next area to get a wall under the Freedom of Religion Act because it involves a really old church.
America doesn't have any really old churches...

Upgrading walls and building new walls sounds very much like a Trump victory to me. He gets a win under his belt and gets to be seen fighting the good fight for the foreseeable future. It really couldn't be much better for him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... dcaae2612c

Re: Government Shutdown

by Senlac » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:25 am

Octavious wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:47 pm
orathaic wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:39 pm
I just don't understand how declaring a national emergency is the same thing as Mexico paying for the wall... But the would make Trump a lier.
Trump's a liar? You'll be telling us the Pope's Catholic next.

How can you tell for sure if a politician is lying?
The lips are moving :-D

Re: Government Shutdown

by Octavious » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:47 pm

orathaic wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:39 pm
I just don't understand how declaring a national emergency is the same thing as Mexico paying for the wall... But the would make Trump a lier.
Trump's a liar? You'll be telling us the Pope's Catholic next.

Re: Government Shutdown

by orathaic » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:39 pm

I just don't understand how declaring a national emergency is the same thing as Mexico paying for the wall... But the would make Trump a lier.

Re: Government Shutdown

by Octavious » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:11 pm

Randomizer wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 pm
Technically the "Wall funds" go only to upgrade and repair existing walls and only a little goes to 40 miles of new walls.

Trump is already facing a major lawsuit to block construction in the next area to get a wall under the Freedom of Religion Act because it involves a really old church.
America doesn't have any really old churches...

Upgrading walls and building new walls sounds very much like a Trump victory to me. He gets a win under his belt and gets to be seen fighting the good fight for the foreseeable future. It really couldn't be much better for him.

Re: Government Shutdown

by Randomizer » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:41 pm

Technically the "Wall funds" go only to upgrade and repair existing walls and only a little goes to 40 miles of new walls.

Trump is already facing a major lawsuit to block construction in the next area to get a wall under the Freedom of Religion Act because it involves a really old church.

Re: Government Shutdown

by Octavious » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:49 pm

orathaic wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:39 pm
Also the fact that it is for a fence not a wall may seem relevant to some...
By some you mean a handful of Democrat career politicians who have been in the game so long they've actually started believing their own spin?

Re: Government Shutdown

by orathaic » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:39 pm

I assume the 1.4 billion was in exchange for some changes to how migrants in the US at the moment are treated.

Don't know how Congress negotiated it. Some may even spin it as just repairs to the current wall/barriers.

Also the fact that it is for a fence not a wall may seem relevant to some...

Re: Government Shutdown

by Octavious » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:33 pm

I've just been catching up on the Wall drama, and I'm a little fuzzy on the details.

So Congress, despite forcing a government shutdown and the sabre rattling and Pelosi vowing to give a dollar if he's lucky, voted to allocate nearly $1.4 billion to wall building?

And then Trump played the emergency card in a bid for the rest?

So, even if we assume that the emergency lark gets stopped, the $1.4 billion is a pretty major political victory, is it not?

Re: Government Shutdown

by orathaic » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:43 am

Randomizer wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:04 am

Worse is that ICE tries to deport natural born US citizens to countries where they are citizens.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/03/us/us-ci ... index.html
Because it is not about migration, economics, or welfare. It is racism.

https://youtu.be/BGIetWAds6A

Re: Government Shutdown

by Randomizer » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:04 am

Building a wall only helps Trump with his base support.

The money could be spent to hire more border patrol agents, reinforce ports of entry where almost all the problems occur, expand the courts to speed up cases to remove criminals, and better equipment to watch between ports of entry.

Right now there are fewer immigrants at the border than a few years ago. It's a fake news issue to get racist support.

Worse is that ICE tries to deport natural born US citizens to countries where they are citizens.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/03/us/us-ci ... index.html

Re: Government Shutdown

by orathaic » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:58 pm

@Octavious, I'm not sure handing him a win would do anything other than embolden his base.

When Ann Coulter says he is a wimp for backing down, you can see his base slip, though they'll be back in his corner when he fights the next time...

Re: Government Shutdown

by Octavious » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:12 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:20 pm
Given the nature of US elections, almost everything a president is going to achieve is going to happen in the first or perhaps the second year in office. If this really was his priority he should have pushed for funding in the first few months in office, not right after his policies got rebuffed in the midterms.
Indeed, and if this is obvious to us it's obvious to Trump as well. The thought occurs that a wall that doesn't get built can't fail. As things stand it remains a solution popular amongst many Trump supporters that only stands a chance of happening if Trump is re-elected. Imagine how damaging to Trump's election chances a shiny new and hugely expensive failure would be.

Frankly if the Democrats were so convinced the wall was a stupid idea the best thing they could have done is let Trump build the bloody thing and beat him over the head with it. Instead the Democrats are telling everyone who will listen that they stopped the wall, which means every time a bunch of desperate Venezuelans march north to the border Trump can blame them.

Re: Government Shutdown

by orathaic » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:48 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47015797

In which Trump spins this concession as 'not a concession' and says he did it to help workers hurt by the shutdown.

Trump is excellent at fixing problems he himself created. Some excellent work there.

Re: Government Shutdown

by flash2015 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:20 pm

Octavious wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:14 pm
From what I heard Trump was told by Republicans in congress that they could no longer support his stance. But as Ora says, this is a long way from over. What troubles me is that the Democrats seem to think they've won a great victory and Trump is all but defeated, which suggests they've learned absolutely nothing in the past few years.
I don't know whether it is crowing in victory, but it certainly is a sigh of relief.

But Trump certainly has diminished himself "bigly" through this. He thought the democrats after achieving a big victory in the midterms were going to fold like cheap suits immediately after. What the hell was he smoking?? This all doesn't look good for his image as the "master negotiator". Even Anne Coulter, one of his most fervent supporters now calls Trump "the biggest wimp to ever server as President of the United States".

Given the nature of US elections, almost everything a president is going to achieve is going to happen in the first or perhaps the second year in office. If this really was his priority he should have pushed for funding in the first few months in office, not right after his policies got rebuffed in the midterms.

Re: Government Shutdown

by ND » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:23 pm

orathaic wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:34 pm
@ND Trump gets to make his State of the Union address, and then shut the govt back down in what, a few weeks?

This isn't over...
/sigh I guess

Re: Government Shutdown

by Octavious » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:14 pm

From what I heard Trump was told by Republicans in congress that they could no longer support his stance. But as Ora says, this is a long way from over. What troubles me is that the Democrats seem to think they've won a great victory and Trump is all but defeated, which suggests they've learned absolutely nothing in the past few years.

Re: Government Shutdown

by orathaic » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:34 pm

@ND Trump gets to make his State of the Union address, and then shut the govt back down in what, a few weeks?

This isn't over...

Re: Government Shutdown

by ksako8 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:39 am

Thanks for admitting you were spinning before

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