[quote=Aurelia post_id=31090 time=1534887399 user_id=3638]
I’m honestly fine with space exploration but I think it’s stupid that we move to Mars because we trashed this planet so much.
[/quote]

I wouldn't worry about that. There's literally nothing we can do that would make the Earth a less suitable place for human life than Mars. You could burn every ounce of fossil fuel on the planet, and set off every nuke, and the Earth would still be the more attractive prospect.

Ultimately, though, we need to spread out to new worlds. Living solely on the Earth is a death sentence for the species.

[quote=brainbomb post_id=30408 time=1534484236 user_id=62]
Theres not a next host...
[/quote]

Mars.

I’m honestly fine with space exploration but I think it’s stupid that we move to Mars because we trashed this planet so much.

Are you suggesting oil isn’t for drinking?

Oil pipelines being prioritized over water pipelines to drought zone and wildfire proned areas is another silly way we put effort into stupid infrastructure

I'm a pretty hot topic myself if you get what I'm sayin 8-)

Earth is definitely not overcrowded atm. The main issue is our systems of distribution are terribly inefficient at getting necessary resources where they need to be. It's not as if we don't have the physical ability to move the necessary things around, or lack the technology to avoid catastrophic climate change and other such man made disasters, just that there is no incentive to do this in our current system.

So gather all six Infinity Stones and snap your fingers to solve the overcrowding problem.

I think it was said that 1/3 of the worlds population could live comfortably in texas alone. So saying theres not enough room, or food is false

I should rephrase that, perhaps. Living sustainably is not a great option if it means sacrificing the current rapid rate of human scientific and industrial progress, which as things stand would very much be the case.

We should always keep in mind that we are natural creatures that have been evolved and shaped by the world to the same degree as everything else. Our impulses, our desires, even apparently destructive ones, are as natural as a flower following the sun.

[quote=peterlund post_id=30366 time=1534458469 user_id=106]
There are about 6.6 billion too many humans on this planet. I guess that this planet can only sustainable host 1 billion people, but at the moment we are up at 7.6 billion. And we are growing in numbers too.
[/quote]

Growing in numbers really quite fast, it would seem. By a billion people in that paragraph alone! Out of curiosity, is your guess based upon anything other than 1 billion being a nice round number? It doesn't bare much resemblance to most other estimates I've seen.

Living sustainably is not a great option, by the way. Looking back at the history of the Earth the overwhelming majority of every species has gone extinct. Humanity did the sustainability thing rather well 100,000 years ago and nearly went extinct. Nature is a violent and rapidly changing beast when she wants to be. In our short life spans we are lulled into believing in a myth of cyclical harmony, but a slightly longer term perspective shows that lie for what it is.

[quote=brainbomb post_id=30408 time=1534484236 user_id=62]
Theres not a next host...
[/quote]

If you truly believe that you believe humanity is doomed regardless. Thankfully I've seen no evidence to suggest it's true.

Theres not a next host...

There are about 6.6 billion too many humans on this planet. I guess that this planet can only sustainable host 1 billion people, but at the moment we are up at 7.6 billion. And we are growing in numbers too.

As they said in the Matrix movie. "Humankind is like a virus. It consumes the resources and kill the host (the planet) and then moves on to the next host"...

Universal Healthcare. I'm American

Worldwide: climate change and doing our best to minimize the damage

[quote=Stressedlines post_id=30049 time=1534355942 user_id=86]
I am with Oct, and probably due to the fact my parents are immigrants, and had to hear how hard it was from them to get here, the mountain of paperwork, lines, etc.

There is a lot more issues other than my personal feelings that make me advocate for strong border control/immigration, but also the fact that the laws IN PLACE are not being enforced either.

I think i read somewhere, that over 3000 Americans a year are killed by illegals. That isnt a smallish number by any stretch
[/quote]

More Americans are killed by US citizens. It's a matter of selective law enforcement rather than where the killers come from if you want to do it statistically.

I'm living in Arizona where law enforcement rarely punishes American citizens that knowingly are violating the law by hiring illegal immigrants. Going after Hispanics and leaving alone whites that are breaking the laws.

A country has the right to restrict immigration, but it needs to be consistent.

However there are questions on how Melania Trump got her visa:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/questions-linger-about-how-melania-trump-a-slovenian-model-scored-the-einstein-visa/2018/02/28/d307ddb2-1b35-11e8-ae5a-16e60e4605f3_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.062dae731a45
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/25/melania-trump-defends-donald-by-saying-she-immigrated-legally-but-for-models-like-her-its-easier/?utm_term=.2c3d29c8592e

Trump's statements regarding her first visa seem to indicate that Melania worked illegally in the US and therefore should have been ineligible for naturalization for due to lying to INS:

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/melania-trump-immigration-donald-226648

So under Trump's zero tolerance policy, Melania should be stripped of her citizenship and deported. There is also the possibility that her son should be removed from the home since the father is facing criminal investigations.

Destroying the planet is far beyond our ability. If we really put our minds to it we might just be able to kill off a lot of the life, but that would take an extreme amount of effort. Nature is far better at that sort of thing, as the desolate spheres of Mars and Venus demonstrate so well.

What we can achieve as a species is to shape the Earth and make modest changes to the climate. Stopping those changes is a really simple task. Simply sterilize most of the world's population and wait. Job done.

The real question isn't how do we save the planet, but what we want the planet to do for us. How many of us do we want it to support, and in what degree of comfort? What do we value that we want to continue existing, and what can we do away with? Is the ability for every human to experience global travel more or less important than Siberian wilderness? Is the freedom of an African family to farm and multiply more important than the freedom of elephants to roam free?

Crude examples, I know, but the point is that it's not about saving the planet, it's about balancing priorities.

The biggest issue in America is the biggest issue the globe faces. How can we clean up our planet and stop destroying it.

I am with Oct, and probably due to the fact my parents are immigrants, and had to hear how hard it was from them to get here, the mountain of paperwork, lines, etc.

There is a lot more issues other than my personal feelings that make me advocate for strong border control/immigration, but also the fact that the laws IN PLACE are not being enforced either.

I think i read somewhere, that over 3000 Americans a year are killed by illegals. That isnt a smallish number by any stretch

Immigration is certainly an interesting topic. The argument seems to grow from differences between those whose instinct is towards freedom of movement being a human right, and those whose instincts are to value the nation state.

I tend to be firmly in the latter category, and believe that any nation has the right to say who can and can't come in, for whatever reason. If a nation wants open borders, good for them. If they want to stop me in particular moving there I won't be particularly happy about it, but firmly believe that they have the right to make that choice.

[quote=Stressedlines post_id=30012 time=1534333799 user_id=86]
Immigration seems to be one that triggers me more than most

I have plenty, but the more i talk about them, the more pissed off I get
[/quote]

I'm not looking to kick off a cage match, I'm just curious and bored.

What's your stance on immigration then Stressed?

this is just like a cage match for MMA isnt it?

This will get ugly

Immigration seems to be one that triggers me more than most

I have plenty, but the more i talk about them, the more pissed off I get