Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

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Expand view Topic review: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by xorxes » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:56 pm

yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:14 pm
yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:11 pm
xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:31 pm


town!brainbomb had you as 100% confirmed scum, me as 100% confirmed town, and his only doubt with bozo would have been if the team was DEY. That's facts, I don't need to pretend anything, and I don't see why you would think I would want to pretend anything. I don't really know how much attention he was really paying to the game, he was acting as if he was not paying attention, but I hope he was ready to change his vote at the last minute if that had been needed.
Given that 100% certainty logic about me for all three for you and an obvious grudge for rdrivera on me, then the biggest scum tell for Ike would had been you all voting for damo who was a doubt when you should had all been voting on me no matter what.
I guess not for damo since it was a last minute vote change but for bozo for example
brainbomb never voted for damo, I only voted at the very last minute, and EP had good reasons to vote for damo because damo was "confirmed scum" for him.

The only one who voted for bozo was brainbomb, who had good reasons (as good a reason as bozo had to vote for brainbomb). EP and I never voted for bozo.

So no, there was nothing especially suspicious about our votes from Ike's POV, they were just what we would have voted if we were town.

bozo suspecting damo may also have been strengthened by brainbomb abandoning his vote for you, giving more substance to bozo's BDY theory.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by yuuki » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:14 pm

yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:11 pm
xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:31 pm
yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:15 pm


If the situation would had been flipped and DYZ were scum, brainbomb would had had doubts. That's all. You know it and I know it. I'm not sure why you are trying to pretend that is not true.
town!brainbomb had you as 100% confirmed scum, me as 100% confirmed town, and his only doubt with bozo would have been if the team was DEY. That's facts, I don't need to pretend anything, and I don't see why you would think I would want to pretend anything. I don't really know how much attention he was really paying to the game, he was acting as if he was not paying attention, but I hope he was ready to change his vote at the last minute if that had been needed.
Given that 100% certainty logic about me for all three for you and an obvious grudge for rdrivera on me, then the biggest scum tell for Ike would had been you all voting for damo who was a doubt when you should had all been voting on me no matter what.
I guess not for damo since it was a last minute vote change but for bozo for example

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by yuuki » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:11 pm

xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:31 pm
yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:15 pm
xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:12 pm


Why would we even consider voting a 50/50 when we had a 100%? Brainbomb had you as 100% and bozo as 99% (because of the unlikely DEY). Why would he consider anyone other than you or bozo?



Our 100% target had enough chances to be lynched, there was no reason for us to compromise. Their 100% targets did not have enough support, someone had to compromise in order to get them lynched.

If the scum team really had been DYZ, what else would we have done other than consolidate on Y, that was the only one confirmed for all of us?
If the situation would had been flipped and DYZ were scum, brainbomb would had had doubts. That's all. You know it and I know it. I'm not sure why you are trying to pretend that is not true.
town!brainbomb had you as 100% confirmed scum, me as 100% confirmed town, and his only doubt with bozo would have been if the team was DEY. That's facts, I don't need to pretend anything, and I don't see why you would think I would want to pretend anything. I don't really know how much attention he was really paying to the game, he was acting as if he was not paying attention, but I hope he was ready to change his vote at the last minute if that had been needed.
Given that 100% certainty logic about me for all three for you and an obvious grudge for rdrivera on me, then the biggest scum tell for Ike would had been you all voting for damo who was a doubt when you should had all been voting on me no matter what.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by brainbomb » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:21 pm

xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:42 pm
brainbomb wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:16 pm
wait I was scum?
:lol: Is this your first time lurking your way to victory?
yes. lol.
i see the inherent value in it now

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by rdrivera2005 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:03 pm

xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:51 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:22 pm

I confess, I really disliked this game. Maybe because I was like a third-party which everybody knew was a third-party and just ignore the whole game.
Yes, I thought it was weird that we all knew what everyone's operations were going to be from the start. It would have made more sense for operations to be revealed as they happened, not knowing how it all would play out from the start. Then your role would not have been so hard. If we were not told who had a confession, we would have been more free to confess to anyone instead of having to submit to a vote.
Agree, but I will not play this again to test this hypothesis, lol.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by xorxes » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:51 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:22 pm

I confess, I really disliked this game. Maybe because I was like a third-party which everybody knew was a third-party and just ignore the whole game.
Yes, I thought it was weird that we all knew what everyone's operations were going to be from the start. It would have made more sense for operations to be revealed as they happened, not knowing how it all would play out from the start. Then your role would not have been so hard. If we were not told who had a confession, we would have been more free to confess to anyone instead of having to submit to a vote.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by yuuki » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:46 pm

rdrivera2005 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:22 pm
Well, first of all, thanks to Emc for assuming the task of GMing and sorry if I was a bit acid at some point.

I confess, I really disliked this game. Maybe because I was like a third-party which everybody knew was a third-party and just ignore the whole game. The game was pretty solved at D3 when it's painfully obvious Xorxes and Expresso were scum. Brainbomb was obvious on D1 (just look at my posts there).

Also, my wincon just become impossible after hidden agenda and when I asked for what happens in an event of a tie (which seems the best I can achieve) I was just ignored first by Yav and the second time I got a message saying it will be a “surprise”. I just think you should not have a surprise at game end and this also apply to attaching the vote to other player. Seems the GMs just didn't want Mafia to win.

So, I just decided that if the game have the rules set at the fly I can alter my wincon to consider that my Grudge against Yukki is so bad that if he loses the game it's also a small victory to me. And it worked.
I feel for you. It must have sucked to be third party here. It definitely frustrated us too to have your wincon altered so close to endgame.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by xorxes » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:42 pm

brainbomb wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:16 pm
wait I was scum?
:lol: Is this your first time lurking your way to victory?

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by damo666 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:36 pm

3rd party was defo the weakest aspect of the game and I would not like to have got it. Imagine getting Deep Cover as HA. Ridiculous.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by rdrivera2005 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:22 pm

Well, first of all, thanks to Emc for assuming the task of GMing and sorry if I was a bit acid at some point.

I confess, I really disliked this game. Maybe because I was like a third-party which everybody knew was a third-party and just ignore the whole game. The game was pretty solved at D3 when it's painfully obvious Xorxes and Expresso were scum. Brainbomb was obvious on D1 (just look at my posts there).

Also, my wincon just become impossible after hidden agenda and when I asked for what happens in an event of a tie (which seems the best I can achieve) I was just ignored first by Yav and the second time I got a message saying it will be a “surprise”. I just think you should not have a surprise at game end and this also apply to attaching the vote to other player. Seems the GMs just didn't want Mafia to win.

So, I just decided that if the game have the rules set at the fly I can alter my wincon to consider that my Grudge against Yukki is so bad that if he loses the game it's also a small victory to me. And it worked.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by damo666 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:18 pm

brainbomb wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:16 pm
wait I was scum?
Lol

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by brainbomb » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:17 pm

wtf I thought I was town this whole game

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by brainbomb » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:16 pm

wait I was scum?

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by yuuki » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:13 pm

xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:21 pm
yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:04 pm
xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:02 pm


That peg mechanism was a really horrible last minute change of rules.

Scum would peg their votes to a townie if the only way for them to avoid losing was to get that townie to vote with them.

So no, I don't think pegging your vote to Ike automatically cleared you. If it did, then the mechanism would not have been just horrible, but game ruining.

I have no idea what would have happened if for example I secretely pegged my vote to EP and EP secretely pegged it to me. I did not ask.
Of course you wouldn't like the mechanism because you knew it 'almost' cleared me. And yes of course it didn't 100% clear me or it would had been an invalid ghame mechanic. But just the fact that I was willing to do that showed very strongly that I was town. Same as early on when I wanted to use my opeartion on myself, which was an undoubtedly town move.

People in mafia tend to forget occam's razor.
I didn't like the mechanism because it was a last minute thing and I wasn't sure what to do with it. I even considered pegging my vote to EP while staying on yuuki, but in the end decided it was not worth the risk. I was glad I didn't, when emc actually published what the pegs were when at first it seemed they would be kept secret (why on earth do them via PM if they were going to be outed?)

I don't agree that using your operation on yourself would have been a town move, a scum could just as easily use it on themselves to prove how towny they were if that was the case.

I think if the operations had all been used randomly, the info we got in the end would have been very similar to what we got by choosing who the operations were used on.

I'm curious to know if brainbomb really got a tip on rivera or just made it up. I'm surprised nobody accused him of making it up, since it was a pretty favorable choice for us.
It is townie because it was pitting myself against someone chosen by a town vote. If I got to choose the other person, then yes there is little risk as scum. This way, it limited my options and opened up significant risks of being exposed. A very dumb move as scum. It doesn't mean it is impossible. In mafia there is always a possibility that a townie move is actually pulled off by scum successfully. But if that is what happens then kudos to mafia for managing to play so well without getting caught in a lie. If you play to try to catch mafia that one crazy time, you are going to end up losing almost every time.

It's like when you try to guess which teams make it past the initial round in the world cup. You know there are going to be a couple of huge upsets eventually, but if you bet on guessing when that upset is going to happen you are probably going to lose. You are probably better off playing it safe for the most part as you'll win more often than not (assuming the rewards for wins are the same like in mafia, where one game is not more valuable than the other).

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by RagingIke297 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:05 pm

yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:02 pm
RagingIke297 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:20 pm
yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:13 pm


Ok, apologies for thinking that then, but you were missing for most of the phase when you could had been asking questions and talking to us. Most of the time you came in and asked for summaries from other people. That to me felt like you weren't trying. Either way, the power to draw and get an extra phase was there. You didn't need to take a 50-50 shot.
How could i have drawn the vote? It was 7-1 on two townies and I only had 3 votes to move around by myself
If you had move to brainbomb it would had been 4 - 4. I think bozo was on brainbomb at phase end, no?
Bringing finsihed on Bozo

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by yuuki » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:02 pm

RagingIke297 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:20 pm
yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:13 pm
RagingIke297 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:09 pm


I did try, I sat down for about 2 hours and worked out that it was 100% either DYZ or BEX and that I had a 50/50 shot at each given all the SOLID info I was in possession of. I made a guess becuase I couldnt be sure, I guessed wrong
Ok, apologies for thinking that then, but you were missing for most of the phase when you could had been asking questions and talking to us. Most of the time you came in and asked for summaries from other people. That to me felt like you weren't trying. Either way, the power to draw and get an extra phase was there. You didn't need to take a 50-50 shot.
How could i have drawn the vote? It was 7-1 on two townies and I only had 3 votes to move around by myself
If you had move to brainbomb it would had been 4 - 4. I think bozo was on brainbomb at phase end, no?

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by damo666 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:53 pm

yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:52 pm
@damo: I think you played a great game and you read the situation very well. It was nice to have a fellow town on the same page even if you had no info on me.
Thanks.

I do understand your frustration but I think you are being a bit harsh on Ike.

Its unfortunate Bozo didn't peg to Ike then we may have had a tie but I appreciate his decision.

In retrospect I think it was a mistake to allow pegging because of the circulatory problem. However I didn't think if that at the time and I don't blame EMC for his decision. As a general principle though I think we all learn we should not change rules during game.

Thanks to EMC for GM ing in Yav's absence.

Finally thanks to all for playing without the usual abuse and acrimony.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by xorxes » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:31 pm

yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:15 pm
xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:12 pm
yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:00 pm


That's my point precisely. All of you never once considered voting for any of BEX. Whether some of you said you would vote for any of us three or just one is irrelevant. The main point is none of you were ever open to voting each other in the way D and Z were. At the very least brainbomb had to be.
Why would we even consider voting a 50/50 when we had a 100%? Brainbomb had you as 100% and bozo as 99% (because of the unlikely DEY). Why would he consider anyone other than you or bozo?
Also, you are overlooking the point that despite damo and bozo having a confirmed scum from their point of view they were willing to vote outside of their 100% targets whereas you and EP were only willing to vote for your 100% targets. All of these are clear signs that you were scum and had no doubts unlike Z and D.
Our 100% target had enough chances to be lynched, there was no reason for us to compromise. Their 100% targets did not have enough support, someone had to compromise in order to get them lynched.

If the scum team really had been DYZ, what else would we have done other than consolidate on Y, that was the only one confirmed for all of us?
If the situation would had been flipped and DYZ were scum, brainbomb would had had doubts. That's all. You know it and I know it. I'm not sure why you are trying to pretend that is not true.
town!brainbomb had you as 100% confirmed scum, me as 100% confirmed town, and his only doubt with bozo would have been if the team was DEY. That's facts, I don't need to pretend anything, and I don't see why you would think I would want to pretend anything. I don't really know how much attention he was really paying to the game, he was acting as if he was not paying attention, but I hope he was ready to change his vote at the last minute if that had been needed.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by xorxes » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 pm

yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:11 pm
Also, even if ike was convinced all of BEX were town, thanks to the pegged vote if he had switched late in the phase he would had forced a draw and earned an extra phase which could only be good for town as there would be more info.
He was obviously not convinced either way. And we did not know what would happen with the extra phase. I asked emc and he said there would not be extra info, but he did not clarify what would happen.

Re: Mini Mafia 1008 - Triple Agent

by xorxes » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:21 pm

yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:04 pm
xorxes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:02 pm
yuuki wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:51 pm
And why would scum ever peg their votes to a townie?
That peg mechanism was a really horrible last minute change of rules.

Scum would peg their votes to a townie if the only way for them to avoid losing was to get that townie to vote with them.

So no, I don't think pegging your vote to Ike automatically cleared you. If it did, then the mechanism would not have been just horrible, but game ruining.

I have no idea what would have happened if for example I secretely pegged my vote to EP and EP secretely pegged it to me. I did not ask.
Of course you wouldn't like the mechanism because you knew it 'almost' cleared me. And yes of course it didn't 100% clear me or it would had been an invalid ghame mechanic. But just the fact that I was willing to do that showed very strongly that I was town. Same as early on when I wanted to use my opeartion on myself, which was an undoubtedly town move.

People in mafia tend to forget occam's razor.
I didn't like the mechanism because it was a last minute thing and I wasn't sure what to do with it. I even considered pegging my vote to EP while staying on yuuki, but in the end decided it was not worth the risk. I was glad I didn't, when emc actually published what the pegs were when at first it seemed they would be kept secret (why on earth do them via PM if they were going to be outed?)

I don't agree that using your operation on yourself would have been a town move, a scum could just as easily use it on themselves to prove how towny they were if that was the case.

I think if the operations had all been used randomly, the info we got in the end would have been very similar to what we got by choosing who the operations were used on.

I'm curious to know if brainbomb really got a tip on rivera or just made it up. I'm surprised nobody accused him of making it up, since it was a pretty favorable choice for us.

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