Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

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Expand view Topic review: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by Neslok Knuhs » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:53 pm

Number 20, not previous

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by Neslok Knuhs » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:52 pm

In response to the previous statement, this is not a conversation about “is gunboat good”, it I said about “is gunboat Diplomacy”.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by ziran » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:07 am

sorry i should clarify. i'm cool with the phase length. i just want to get better at regular gunboat. archenemy is complicated as full press, i can't imagine gunboat.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by dargorygel » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:45 am

Is this an archenemy style?

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by ziran » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:28 pm

i'm cool with that. i guess i should specify other parameters. sos, hdv, anon, 20 :points:, 80+ rr

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by Magnetic24 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:37 am

If you're up for making it long phases (36 hour phases), then I'm in too. It might be cool to do an 'archenemy' style game again, except as a gunboat game.
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Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by ziran » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:59 am

Yigg are you still in? I'll start a game around the 1st.

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Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by ziran » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:37 pm

i've got too much going on at the moment, both in terms of active games and irl stuff. perhaps some time in april.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by Yigg » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:02 pm

@Ziran: I would be too. If you started a game, I'd be in.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by ziran » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:05 pm

while I have some tactical and strategic skill, i seem to lack the nuance to communicate via moves and interpret those of other players. one could argue that press is a crutch. for now at least, press is my preferred way to play, though i am interested in improving my gunboat skills.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by Magnetic24 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:54 am

Yigg wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:15 pm
I've played a number of gunboat games, and I've done poorly in all of them. While I have faith in my tactical and strategic ability, but it's not helped me at all. I think my game relies heavily on the human interaction part. So much so that, in its absence, I struggle.
My skill never translates to gunboat, either. (I mean, I don't have that much by comparison, but what I do have always is lost, and I lose the points I've bet.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by Yigg » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:15 pm

I've played a number of gunboat games, and I've done poorly in all of them. While I have faith in my tactical and strategic ability, but it's not helped me at all. I think my game relies heavily on the human interaction part. So much so that, in its absence, I struggle.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by e.m.c^42 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:35 pm

Claesar wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:41 am
mhsmith0 wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:39 pm
Whatever do you mean? 1v1 has units, moves, builds, a map, and (usually) PRESS! Clearly it has fulfilled all of the requirements to be considered true Diplomacy.
No alliances though.
Oh no, you can certainly ally with the other player...

or at the very least, I've attempted in the past lol

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by Senlac » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:59 pm

Vom Kriege wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:46 pm
I've noticed that a lot of games played on this website are set to not permit messaging - and play he game more as a pure war game. Isn't communication, negotiations, relationship-building, and so forth the essence of Diplomacy? Removing the press fundamentally changes the game. It is in fact called 'Diplomacy' and not 'War Game'. Right?

I'd love to hear people's views.
Simple, agreed. Gunboat is an interesting contest, for some, but it isn’t Diplomacy. It’s just a board game like Risk.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by MajorMitchell » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:47 pm

I might suggest that it's virtually impossible in grubby gunboat games to coordinate more complicated manoeuvres of multiple units with multiple units of an ally, or allies eg in a three way alliance,.. such as convoys using fleets of more than one player as just the simplest example

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by MajorMitchell » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:32 pm

A prodigal blighter is back, tis Daffy old MajorMitchell. Twas only October when I had my dummy spit, the good news is my Civil Disorders equal my solo wins as a consequence. So reading these months old posts from Octavious our wise Oracle & jmo & rokakoma is fun.
I was never a fan of grubby gunboat games, but in desperation & madness given the choice of two joinable games, I took on a two sc Russia in a live gunboat game last night & got 14 points in a DSS draw.. serves them right for not using SoS.
I'm not entirely convinced there's not a touch of the patronising in the "if you haven't played in the zillions of points per game gang's games you really can't be expected to understand the possibility that there are (might I dare to suggest) "subtle nuances and variations" rather than "tenous differences" ( dearest jmo) in using choices of moves and builds to signal messages.
But those messages are there for all to see, difficult to tell different stories to different players than in traditional Diplomacy of the original board & f2f format for games, so perhaps there's less deceit in grubby gunboat but I find that proposition immediately doubtful.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by ziran » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:19 am

i don't care what you call it as long as you join games and submit orders (and send press where appropriate). you can call it candyland if you want to.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by orathaic » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:46 pm

Playing with strict limits like 1908, a popular variant in various tournaments. I like timers aswell, but with new players they usually deserve a chance to talk things through... (though added time pressure of face-to-face with strict time limits - including if you haven't written your orders down your units do nothing! - is a lot of fun...).

I couldn't comment on game of thrones, as it has been too long, but would also regard twilight imperium as too big a time sink for the enjoyment; not worth the return on (time) investment.

I failed to mention the other popular press variants, public press, and black, white or grey press - where black is no-one knows for certain who is messaging, because all messages are anonymous, white press all messages are confirmed as being from the player who sends them, and grey press is where messages may be anonymous or confirmed.

That means you could have black private press and white public press, or vica versa... I do like the idea of a game of touch, fog of war but with a public black press channel.

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by Claesar » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:44 pm

orathaic wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:23 pm
... Face to face is much better than webdip (which is also a variant of the game with the board) but very difficult to arrange, (ever tried getting 6 people round for a board game which lasts up to 14 hours?).

...
It doesn't need to take that long. If you use a timer and play until 1908, you can finish a game in 4 hours. That's less than most playthroughs of Game of Thrones I've played, and certainly less than any run ever of Twilight Imperium.

That said, it's indeed still hard. I once almost organised a game at my place, but #7 bailed at the last minute..

Re: Is it still Diplomacy if there is no press?

by orathaic » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:23 pm

1 Vs 1s are very clearly not diplomacy. Gunboat is a variant of diplomacy, as are map variants, touch (where you can only communicate with players you have units touching) and fog of war (where the map only shows you the area around you units and SC).

Gunboat is popular, and some community members value it more than others. Whether it 'counts' as diplomacy or not, is irrelevant. It is a non-question. There is no objective answer, only opinion, and what that comes down to is how much it is valued (there is actually a separate parallel conversation here about intelligence and what society values... But I will not digress too much).

Variants are fun, that is my main reason for playing diplomacy.
I don't enjoy gunboat as much as full press/standard diplomacy. Face to face is much better than webdip (which is also a variant of the game with the board) but very difficult to arrange, (ever tried getting 6 people round for a board game which lasts up to 14 hours?).

Happy Merry one and all.

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