A rant about Reliability Rating

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Expand view Topic review: A rant about Reliability Rating

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Sunstriker » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:11 pm

I too have a thing called “a life.”

In it I work a job, I’m also self employed, I take time with family, I clean the house, I (try to) exercise regularly, I play 4 games of Dungeons and Dragons, I hangout with friends (digitally now), I...ya know live.

I also take the time to make sure I don’t miss a turn in Diplomacy. Why? Because there are other players in the game that are counting on me to do my best and not waste their time. In turn I expect them to do their best and not waste mine. Sometimes things come up and life happens, that’s fine. Calling for a Pause when life gets more complex than you’d anticipated is part of the game. As is talking to mods when you need to elevate things.

If you come into a game that has a turn time of 24 hours YOU are making a commitment that you’ll log in at least once in 24 hours to check if you need to submit orders If you can’t make that commitment don’t. If you fail it’s ruining the game for up to 6 other people, more if you’re playing one of those bigger maps. As an adult who knows my limitations I try to avoid games that are less than 36 hours because I know any less than that and I’m not able to fully commit.

Oh and I have respect for other people and their time. If you can’t respect my time or the other folks we’re playing with I don’t want you in my game.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by TheFlyingBoat » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:51 am

AGuy27 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:47 pm
I think some of these comments are missing the point.
1: Not every game on this website has long phases, excusable missed turns, or a low/non-existent reliability requirement, so the "just play games that let you sleep" argument isn't helpful unless I create a game, which is good advice but it doesn't always work since not every game will fill up.
2: I do try my best to frequently use the website, so the "just be reliable" argument isn't helpful.
Your reliability rating at this point is 12%. When you complained it was at 29%. I'm reasonably convinced at this point that your rating is entirely deserved and that if you can't join any games that is just the system working properly. Please make a better effort. This is ridiculous.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by jmo1121109 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:05 pm

The only other exceptions for breaking anon are for tournaments which prohibit it in the tournament rules.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Claesar » Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:32 pm

All gunboats are anon (nowadays). This wording is something we should change.

You can post about anon Full Press games. You can even reveal your identity.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:35 pm

Claesar wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:09 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:40 pm
Do not talk about ongoing games on the forum.

(I'm sure that used to be a rule?)
You're wrong, that never used to be a rule.

You cannot talk about ongoing Gunboats. More correctly; you cannot break game press rules.

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/rules.php
Thank you for correcting me, Claesar.

I see the rule:

"If you are playing in a gunboat (no press/anon game) do not post anything about your game in the forum"

The mention of anon games here is slightly confusing. Is it also against the rules to post about anon games with normal press, or only anon gunboats? If the former, why is this grouped into a rule which at first glance appears just about goonbats?

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Claesar » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:09 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:40 pm
Do not talk about ongoing games on the forum.

(I'm sure that used to be a rule?)
You're wrong, that never used to be a rule.

You cannot talk about ongoing Gunboats. More correctly; you cannot break game press rules.

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/rules.php

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:40 pm

Do not talk about ongoing games on the forum.

(I'm sure that used to be a rule?)

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Diplomaster4 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:59 pm

RoganJosh wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:05 pm
Maybe you should spend this time submitting orders to those two "Beginners Only" games you are playing, instead of ranting on the forum.

You know that you can submit preliminary orders, right?

Btw, every time you fail to submit orders, you ruin the game for the other six players. I think you should ask yourself, why would anyone want to play with you, when you ruin the games?
Yeah you could start by replying to my Press in the beginner's game

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by TomareUtsuZo » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:06 pm

So, the OP is getting ready to CD in one of my games (I am inclined to think on that he started?)

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Longneck » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:06 pm

Thanks for clarifying about missing multiple games. And, as some remarked, I haven't been barred from many games, I just mentioned that it does happen occasionally.

I would still urge a lighter penalty or quicker restoration for the rare miss, but understand there might be higher priority projects. Thanks again.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Simonv121 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:08 am

Claesar wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:00 am
Please email us when this happens and we may be able to arbiter individual cases . Except that we're swamped with work currently as the site traffic has quadrupled.
Thanks. That's helpful to know. If he wasn't so near being defeated anyway, we would have done.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Claesar » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:00 am

Simonv121 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:33 pm
I've just finished a game where a player went into CD, but then rejoined and proceeded to not engage in press and hold each turn until destroyed. Even missed a few more turns after the original CD.

Very annoying, and he can't understand why we were annoyed.
Please email us when this happens and we may be able to arbiter individual cases . Except that we're swamped with work currently as the site traffic has quadrupled.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by jmo1121109 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:25 am

I do want to correct a couple misconceptions. The number on your profile is the number of unexcused missed turns, that does not include missed turns that had system excuses left in the game. @longneck, you had a couple excused missed turns before your unexcused one. Even then, it's a 5% dock and a warning for the first 3 you have.

If you are in 30 games and you sleep in and miss all 30 cause they all processed within a couple hours of each other this is what happens. You get charged for 1 unexcused missed turn. Just 1. The rest will show "Same Period Excused:" = Yes on the RR breakdown page. You can only be charged for 1 in a 24 hour period (live games might be different, not sure how I did that logic, I'll check later). So you go from 100% to 95%. And then if you follow up and email the mods there's a good chance they'll clear that one for you if you have a good record.

It is overall pretty difficult in this system to get to a point where you cannot play anymore and the mods will not give you more chances. Once you've reached that point you're pretty much wrecking games for other people and shouldn't be playing anyway.

"I would have swore players weren’t able to rejoin games they were removed from. Is that not the case?"

If you are out of excused missed turns and miss a turn you are removed from the game. If you have one of your 3 yearly passes available the system does not temporarily ban you and you can rejoin your game. You can do this up to 4 times in a game before you're be temporarily banned which prevents retaking a position for 24 hours. The following year it is impossible for you to do so again, missing a turn will instantly give you a more severe temporary ban until at 9 of them you're temporary banned for a year.

The full info from the breakdown page: (mine is used in this example)
Reliability is how consistently you avoid interrupting games. Any un-excused missed turns hurt your rating. If you have any un-excused missed turns in the last 4 weeks you will receive an 11% penalty to your RR for each of those delays. It is very important to everyone you are playing with to be reliable but we understand mistakes happen so this extra penalty will drop to 5% after 28 days. All of the un-excused missed turns that negatively impact your rating are highlighted in red below. Excused delays will only negatively impact your base score, seen below. Mod excused delays do not hurt your score in any way.

Live Game: If a game had phases 60 minutes long or less any excused missed turns will only impact your rating for 28 days total. The penalty is the same, 5% long term and 6% short term, except the long term penalty is for 28 days and the short term is for 7 days.
System Excused: If you had an "excused missed turn" left this will be yes and will not cause additional penalties against your rating.
Mod Excused: If a moderator excused the missed turn this field will be yes and will not cause additional penalties against your rating.
Same Period Excused: If you have multiple un-excused missed turns in a 24 hour period you are only penalized once with the exception of live games, if this field is yes it will not cause additional penalties against your rating.

Many games are made with a minimum rating requirement so this may impact the quality of games you can enter. If you have more then 3 non-live un-excused missed turns in a year you will begin getting temporarily banned from making new games, joining existing games, or rejoining your own games.

1-3 un-excused delays: warnings
4 un-excused delays: 1-day temp ban
5 un-excused delays: 3-day temp ban
6 un-excused delays: 7-day temp ban
7 un-excused delays: 14-day temp ban
8 un-excused delays: 30-day temp ban
9 or more un-excused delays: infinite, must contact mods for removal

Live game excused turns are penalized independently for temporary bans. 1-2 un-excused missed turns in live games will be a warning, and the 3rd, and any after that will result in a 24 hour temp ban. The 2 warnings reset every 28 days resulting in significantly more yearly warnings for live game players then the normal system.

Factors Impacting RR:
Yearly Turns: 198
Total Counted Missed Turns: 0

Base Percentage: 100%
(100* (1 - Yearly Missed Turns/Yearly Turns))

Added Penalties:
Yearly Unexcused Missed Turns: 0 for a penalty of 0%
Recent Unexcused Missed Turns: 0 for a penalty of 0%
Total:
Reliability Rating: 100

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Squigs44 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:46 am

Yeah the default RR setting for games is 80% (obviously lower if the creators RR is below 80), and rarely do people raise that, especially not past 95%. You shouldn't be missing out much from a single 5% penalty.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by VillageIdiot » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:01 am

Longneck wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:49 am
Hi all. While I generally agree that OP shouldn't join games he can't keep up with, I would like to point out the effect just one or two missed turns can have. According to my profile, I have missed one turn out of 1909, but my RR is 95%. And that's for a YEAR PER GAME? Luckily I didn't sleep in when more deadlines were looming. The punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime to me. There have been games I couldn't join because of that. I know, I know... follow the rules. But real life does intrude occasionally. It would be nice if that could be accounted for somehow. A lot of places waive traffic tickets if there are no others within a certain time period, so maybe reduce the RR penalty or time if there are no other missed deadlines? Perhaps take into account their previous RR or recent misses versus on time orders? Just sayin'... peace out.
I don’t see that many games that aren't accommodating for a 95% reliability. I’ve had the occasional whoopsie myself and have never hit a wall of not being able to enter a game. Fairly reliable has fairly good accessibility to games and fairly unreliable has fairly okay accessibility to games.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by MajorMitchell » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:55 am

Consistent with my views on Civil Disorder as a feature of the game deliberately included by original designers I have thought for many years that there should be a much simpler way for players to put their nation into Civil Disorder & it be immediately available in Open Games for a new player & occasionally suggested it in forum posts.
There are alternatives to going the standard clumsy way of not putting in orders (and not opening game up to look at it if that still induces further delay).. what are de facto forms of Civil Disorder.. the Kamikaze attack or crazy moves.. playing dead.. one unit makes a retreat move & others hold, so it's not all holds/NMR because one token move is made..every retreat option is a disband regardless, so even when a retreat option is available, the unit is disbanded.. .
I took a massive hit to my Reliability Rating about a year ago, so I stopped playing here for more than six months, played odd games at VDip & PlayDiplomacy sites & F2F with old Dipcomrades.
I kept up my forum involvement and when.i eventually saw the lapse of some penalties and significant improvement to my RR I then started playing again here and had my first exploration of playing against the Dalek Bots.and those games, or expiration of penalties has me back at 100% which is in my opinion a Risible RR.
I can assure readers that the Supreme Authority who knows me best, my Wonderful Fire Breathing Mem Sahib Her Serene Imperiousness Indoors has a significantly different assessment of my Reliability Rating.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Longneck » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:49 am

Hi all. While I generally agree that OP shouldn't join games he can't keep up with, I would like to point out the effect just one or two missed turns can have. According to my profile, I have missed one turn out of 1909, but my RR is 95%. And that's for a YEAR PER GAME? Luckily I didn't sleep in when more deadlines were looming. The punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime to me. There have been games I couldn't join because of that. I know, I know... follow the rules. But real life does intrude occasionally. It would be nice if that could be accounted for somehow. A lot of places waive traffic tickets if there are no others within a certain time period, so maybe reduce the RR penalty or time if there are no other missed deadlines? Perhaps take into account their previous RR or recent misses versus on time orders? Just sayin'... peace out.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Mercy » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:54 am

It has always been the case that if you went into Civil Disorder but you go to the page of the game you were playing before anyone takes over, you are back in the game.

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by VillageIdiot » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:36 am

I would have swore players weren’t able to rejoin games they were removed from. Is that not the case?

Re: A rant about Reliability Rating

by Simonv121 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:33 pm

I've just finished a game where a player went into CD, but then rejoined and proceeded to not engage in press and hold each turn until destroyed. Even missed a few more turns after the original CD.

Very annoying, and he can't understand why we were annoyed.

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